Official TSA Form: "Unpredictable screening"
 

While going through security today, I saw an official TSA form in use that shows how inane their "layered security" is.

The form, marked "unpredictable screening" at the top, has two columns, one for passengers and one for carryons. There is a row for every 30 minute period of time that the checkpoint is open. There is one of two "unpredictable screening" methods for every 30 minute block of time. I could only read about halfway down the form but the rows continued almost all the way to the bottom of the sheet.

For passengers, there is either ETD of footwear or pat-down. Most of the rows were for the ETD of footwear.

For carryons, there is either ETD of a divested electronic device or another choice, I forgot what the other one was. There was an employee's initials for each 30 minute period showing that they, I'm guessing, just randomly selected one person during that time period and additional inconvenienced them by doing the operation indicated for that time period.

Yes, folks, this is going to catch the bad guys off guard. They might actually find a terrorist IF he happens to have something that would be caught by these additional screening procedures and IF he comes through at the right 30 minute period of time and IF he's the one they decide to apply another "layer" to.

Seems to me that if these things were necessary, they'd do it to EVERYONE ALL THE TIME. This is the equivalent of going on a skeet range, firing the shotgun, yelling "PULL" and then shouting "hit the bullet! hit the bullet!"

What's even more preverse is that the weak screener that left this form out for the public to see, made it known to anyone and everyone looking on top of the shroud that covers the exit chute of the X-ray machine while waiting for their stuff to come out exactly what happens every 30 minutes that is scheduled to be unpredictable. Only in a federal agency would they try to SCHEDULE UNPREDICTABILITY! Good to know that their layers are being exposed by poorly trained employees.

But then again, you don't professionalize until you federalize so I guess these are the most professional screeners out there!

6 Billion dollars a year and counting...

--PP

I am confused, was the sheet step up like a day planner so that the day was split into 30 minute blocks? Or was the sheet set up so between 1:00 and 1:30 there is to be a "random" and then between 3:00 and 3:30 another random?

I think I've seen this in action. At IAH the other day they were ETDing every computer that came through the checkpoint. Literally every third bag resulted in a call of "Bag check!" The TSAers seemed rather unhappy about it all.

It is extremely important that the TSA NOT be allowed to do anything that deviates from a set, publicly available policy. The traveling public needs to know exactly what to expect during screening and there should not be any surprises.

I find the surprise and outrage such continued inanity engenders ABSOLUTELY PREDICTABLE!

Still counting on you, TSA, to continue to make war on your brothers in arms...

I carry pretty much the same stuff +/- a few blank DVDs and notice that sometimes the laptop bag gets the treatment, sometimes the carryone (packed with an computer equipment) gets the treatment, and sometimes both get the treatment. Inconsistent at best and annoying when they yank a cable out from under something on top (good way to ruin an expensive cable).

As far as this being 'random' (reading off of a form) it isn't. Randomizing anything requires a lack of human intervention, except for perhaps pressing a button for a go/no go indication.

Why is it the TSA is completely incapable of thinking like a terrorist? I bet I could challenge everyone on this board to give it 10 minutes thought and then put forward an idea for a terror plot that took into account the TSA's "preparedness" and they'd come up with dozens of simple but terrifying ideas, none of which would be stopped by the shoe carnival or the liquids ban. I'd start with an attack on all the people standing in line with their shoes off and their laptops out. This is like a special target, prepared by TSA, gift-wrapped, and sent to OBL with a personally engraved invitation to attack, signed and SWAK by Kip Hawley.

I mean, I regularly fire people for not being creative and competent enough. If I were running a terror organisation, and my people couldn't counter the TSAs approach to "security", I'd fire the lot of them. It's brain-dead simple.

Any time you receive additional harassment without probable cause:

TSA Complaint Line 1-866-289-9673

Utterly amazing. All these self appointed security experts and none with a clue about security. Gee am I glad that none of you are in charge of security anywhere, we would all be speaking Farsi and stoning those with a beer in their fridge.

Unpredictable screening is not supposed to be unpredictable for the TSA, its supposed to be unpredictable to the public and the terrorists. You didn’t know what was going to happen until after it was happening. You cannot prepare for screening that you cannot predict. At best you can prepare for everything you can think of and hope that the TSA has not thought of something else.

Not be allowed. Hmmm, interesting thought. And just how are you going to accomplish this important task?

Ahh, and this is the very quintessence of unpredictability. He can see the forrest, but complains that the trees are in the way. Good job Angry.

Because that is not what the TSA is there for. We have other government agencies that specialize in this, and they work together with the TSA and other agencies to make up the entirety of layered security.

As for Spiff’s comment, well all I can say is bring it on dude. We love the calls.

The ignorance displayed in this thread is absolutely amazing. You folks complain about security, yet completely miss the intent of the programs and then make our point by complaining about the unpredictability of programs that are designed to be unpredictable. Congratulations folks. If I thought that the traveling public was smart this group would be cause to change that.

Wow, TSORon, you are one beligerent, small-minded security circus ringmaster! A fine mix of arrogance combined with clear stupidity. And gotta say, the ignorance displayed on this board has gone up significantly since you began to post here. Think I see a correlation there.

Can you explain again, with your patented no back-talk disdain for facts, how carrying large sums of cash through a domestic airport is illegal?

so VideoPaul saw a tsa procedural from which if we asked to see (or something similar), we would be told that it is ssi so with that, i would make this incident public by contacting the tsa, the local media your 'lected official (complete with airport name, date time screening lane and anything else to identify "this flaw" ;)) cuz afaic, you saw something which could "compromise 'skewrity" :rolleyes: and let the tsa deal with it as with all the eff-ups they do and have made public, i say the more the merrier.

Wow, in addition to the ability to predict threats by the use of magic, we now have someone who claims to me a mind reader. You have no idea who knows what about security. What is quite evident is that while you may be employed by the Terrorism Sponsorship Agency, your posted scientific knowledge about security-related items is laughable, at best. You do excel in fearmongering and exaggeration, but have shown no discernible knowledge about security by any metric. Even by the TSA's joke standards, your posted information is far below average.

I couldn't care less what "unpredictable" screening is. It should not be happening in any location that claims to be part of the United States. It will be a beautiful day when the TSA is destroyed, its scumbag "leaders" sent to prison, its collaborators exposed and publicly humiliated, and the Fourth Amendment restored.

Have no fear, they'll continue to be made. Congress, airlines, and even Comrade TSA's complaint line.

Your "unpredictable" programs are a disgrace to the United States. You might as well be making similar statements about people complaining about how disgusting Communism is - just because it lives up to its name. Oh, wait. That's exactly what the TSA is.

first off, and i'll try and keep it simply so not to have this thread head off to omni but, "it ain't just farsi"...it could be french, spanish russian, german, chinese, japanese, swiss, swedish and also good old fashioned plain american english (remember timothy mcveigh...he was red white and blue but 14 years ago today, he was a terrorist none the less)

as to "unpredictable screening being unpredictable to the public", yes i do agree with that but in VideoPaul's case, he saw the schedule as it was left out in "plane" sight" so the unpredictability pooch is thus screwed

Angry about the inconstancy of the bag inspections? Nope. Angry about the fact they toss the contents of my bag then say "you can go now" without repacking my bag the way it was packed in the first place. TSA aren't LEOs so I demand that my carry ons be repacked properly once TSA has pawed through them in a feeble attempt to make me feel safe.

I feel less safe knowing TSA is on the job. At least before 2006 I could properly secure my luggage against theft. TSA made my belongings less secure by their 'layered' toilet paper security than before 9/11.

If you want to make wise acre comments about people being stupid, I can bring up 23 + years of USAF security police/air police mistakes as a shining example of their intelligence. Do you really want to go down that road?

This was the most amazing part of it--this form was left our where anyone over five feet in stature could easily see at least the top half of it (I couldn't read past halfway down clearly) including someone whose intent was more than to point out the farcical waste of money that is the TSA. Where was this screener trained? What's lext, leaving the SOP book out for us to leaf through it? How about a SPOT training manual on the wall at the secondary moat?

You don't professionalize until you federalize!

And TSO Ron's comment about "keep the complaint calls coming, we love them!" seems to indicate that the TSA takes complaint calls about as seriously as they do actual security threats. But, they are keeping us safe from water that was bought at less than 400% markup rates outside the sterile area, thats for sure!

Remember, these "professional, federal" screeners are the BEST there is! They are HIGHLY trained in security (except, of course, at keeping procedural paperork out of eyeshot of the broadcast media) and are not loosed on the unsuspecting traveling public until they are READY to do their jobs! Which, apparently, includes leaving stuff out that probably should not be public knowledge.

Now, anyone want to guess which highly effective checkpoint this was at? I'm quite certain the TSA doesn't care.

--PP

He won't answer just like he never answered my question in the other thread.

Belligerent in the face of stupidity, you betcha. And that is exactly what has been displayed in this thread AFTER the first post. Now, as for what videopaul said, yes I have concerns with that. Those types of forms are supposed to be out of the public’s view, and someone screwed up. It happens. In every walk of life, at every level, in every job, screw ups happen. I hope he brought this one to the attention of the screening manager. Or at the very least called that 1-800 complaint line.

Now, as to the whole cash thing, I have already answered that one, more than once. But for those in the cheap seats I’ll do it again.

You may carry any amount of cash you like, all around the country, anytime you like. Its when you buy a ticket for a destination outside of the United States that you are going to get questions and be required to fill out paperwork. The TSO in SL (or wherever it was) that questioned the man about his $4700 failed to follow SOP. He also used inappropriate language with the passenger, and that is never proper.

Any further questions? Did I make that clear enough for you? If not then please let me know, I can try again.

If I have offended someone here then please take a deep breath. I am not what some might consider a normal TSO. At the checkpoint I am probably the nicest guy you will ever meet, but in forums like this where someone claims that they have been wronged when it is obvious that they don’t know what they are talking about then I am going to call them on it. When faced with stupidity, I’ll call it stupid. When faced with (one of my personal favorite terms) intentional ignorance, I’ll call it stupid. I get it that some don’t like me or my job, tough. Get over it. The TSA is here, so are the rules. Either learn them and comply with them or deal with the consequences of your decision. You ALWAYS have the choice of taking some other form of transportation.

my experience with "unpredictible screening"
 

There was a stretch of time when my laptop bag would get searched about 1 out of every 5 or 6 times I traveled. During this period I would occasionally later notice that items were missing (things like a nice Montblanc pen or similar).

In self defense I started locking the zippers together before placing my bag on the in-feed belt. Oddly enough, in the 2 years since I started that practice my bag has not had a single hand inspection.

It seems to me that TSA screening practices are just as predictable as the behavior of pickpockets.

But...but...that is not how the TS/S Forum works.

Here, the posters get to use all kinds of insults about the TSA, ranging from the mild "idiots" to the more vile "perverts", but as long as they are venting their spleens because they were required to walk through a metal detector that is perfectly acceptable.

As a TSA employee, you are expected not to wipe off the crap that is dumped on your head in TS/S but instead to ask for more. You certainly are not allowed to brand a remark as "stupid" -- even when it is incredibly so.

Yes, I have had some minor problems with the TSA -- anyone who travels enough has -- but I have also had problems with other government agencies, department stores, educational institutions, hotels, and journalists. That is life -- nobody ever promised that everything in life will go just the way that we would like it.

Children learn that. Adults know that. Those adults who were incapable of learning it go to bulletin boards and complain, over and over and over again, giving themselves the excellent opportunity of showing how "superior" they are.

TSORon, you make it too easy.

Who was stupid and failed to learn the rules and now must face the consequences? :

It is your job to know the rules, as murky and SSI as they may be, and you not only got the rules wrong, but you back it up with stupid belligerence, such as: "The fact is that I am correct."

This wasn't even one of them tricky, intentionally unpredictable screening "general rules and recommendations"...this was an actual, printed law that a person seeking to follow the law can look up and study and get right.

It is impossible for any pax to follow the law correctly when it comes to a TSA security site, because there are no laws in that unconstitutional hellhole, just whims of the TSOid who confronts you that day.

Your belligerence is unearned by you and uncalled for toward pax, particularly pax who question the interpretations of super-double-secret rules or just ask, "What are the rules so I can comply," or "Am I legally required to answer that question." You have displayed your own ignorance of the actual law too often now to get away with barking at the pax about "learn the rules or suffer the consequences."

You may not be the Great Satin, but when I think of your employer, I see chintz, chintz everywhere!

That alone would be an improvement as it touches upon two related problems that are at the heart of the TSA. It's not just the TSA's lack of consistency with set, publicly available policy, there's also the problem of set, publicly available policy being just a part of the body of government policy that is impacting travel.

I will ask you again so I can learn your rules - what are the rules at your checkpoint regarding metal butter knives? And that attitude with the Hobson's choice is one of the reasons that issues exist with the TSA.

This is NOT meant to be a personal attack so please don't take it that way:

It is people like TSORon(based on his posts) that make me never want to fly. And yes I do travel by other means everytime possible to avoid the harASSment at the airport.

And it's notable (in my opinion) that coach is former law enforcement. The fools running the TSA (and its abusive screeners) would be wise figure out how/why their behaviour would cause such a reaction in a former LEO.

I couldn't agree more. Amtrak is more expensive, and has a bit of a hassle with ID, but it is so much more relaxing and the TSA hasn't really destroyed that feeling yet.

Just so I know, what's the SOP when you mention something blatantly false as saying it's illegal to take $10k across U.S. borders?

Great Satin... Good one :D:D

Coach, I don’t take anything personally. I consider the source first.

Feel free to travel by any means you choose. Personally, I enjoy flying, but I also enjoy the relaxation of traveling by rail. The person you think of me as here is not the person you will ever meet at the checkpoint. Here I am faced with intentional ignorance, people who claim knowledge that they obviously don’t have, and some people who will never be happy with someone telling them to do things. Infants with access to a computer.

Yes, I am occasionally offensive here. When faced with this level of intentional ignorance from people who think of themselves as adults how can one not be? I don’t sugar coat things, that can be a bit rough for some peoples sensibilities.

Fly, drive, ride, skate, scoot, crawl, whatever, you must still obey rules or face the consequences of your actions. And whining about it will make absolutely no difference.

And this is different from a TSA checkpoint in what way? :confused:

Funny, I thought I had heard you making the bolded complaint previously. :confused:

You seem to believe, and capably express that belief (albeit it in a haughty, superior manner) that TSA and its policies as they currently exist are unworthy of exasperation.

My perspective is that you're woefully incorrect, and might be more sensitive to how damaging the oafish behavior of the TSA at all levels is to the freedoms and liberty we used to have in the USA.

Would I lower myself to lecturing you about narrow perspective or immaturity because I hold different things dear than you do? Um, no, I don't think anyone on this board has the right to castigate others for their beliefs. Attack a factually incorrect statement I made, and we're in a totally different area.

Will I continue to remind a TSA spokesweenie/blogger that he has yet to retract a patently wrong statement, delivered with absolute wrong-headed certainty, at the risk of being dismissed as venting my spleen? Absolutely. Get used to it.

Ron:
First off, I'm a former leo & current airline employee who works around you people 5days a week. I know what really goes on & I see your crap every day I work. So lets make it clear I understand what REAL security is & what your dog & poney harASSment show really is. So by all means as you say consider the source.

Just because there's a form doesn't mean we follow it all the time. We change it up pretty constantly... even if it says swab Kippie bags... I'll mostly be swabbing a laptop, followed by a pair of shoes. Then I'll go pat down someone like.... hmmm... goalie. :P Then I'll swab someone hands.

The number of randoms actually play a part in determining how many people will be hired next quarter/year from what a supervisor told me.

Yes, I have once or twice but not over and over and over again. Perhaps you are confusing me with another poster:

Yes, please, if I may bother you with a few follow up, clarifying questions?


1) How does a TSO know that the cash carrying "perp" has an international ticket if, for instance, the "perp" is clearing security for a flight that connects to his international flight after the first leg? ie When and how does TSA envision checking the "perp"'s itinerary in its entirety?

2) Where, on the TSA web-site did you retract or override the following statement:
Quote:
TSORon said...
"RB, it is against the law to take $10,000 or more in cash out of the country. Has been for a long time.

You can disagree with my other statement as much as you like, the fact is that I am correct."

April 4, 2009 12:53 AM

3) A number of us on this board have legitimate concerns about TSA becoming a constitutional bypass that enables other law enforcement agencies to dragnet for whatever their particular agenda may be. Given that, can you please enlighten us to the nexus between flight security and carrying cash? This question has been asked on the TSA blog as "how much cash will bring down an airliner?", and is still unanswered, but I thought I'd try a more nuanced approach in the hopes of getting some/any answer.

Thank you for the honest answer. "Randoms" are thus not security driven. "Randoms" are a statistical ploy by federal burro-crats to self justify an increase in next year's funding, the Prime Objective of every federal burro-crat. "I don't have time to find Mr. OBL today, I'm too busy filling out the FY 2012 Gimmie Mo Money Forms." :td:

I've seen you make it over and over again with the same snooty attitude.

Just because Randy doesn't have any issues with travel doesn't mean that issues don't exist. I respect Randy a lot, but that doesn't mean I have to take his word as gospel nor does it mean I have to agree with him. Randy may also not value privacy and freedom to the same degree, or maybe he values it in a different way. It doesn't make him wrong, nor does it make the posters here wrong.

He apparently hasn't experienced issues with TSA. Good for him. I wish I could say the same. I'm sure everyone here wishes they could have good experiences with TSA.

You also tend to believe that we go thru looking for fights with TSA. We don't. If I can get thru a checkpoint with a minimum amount of harassment, it's a good thing.

However, if TSA is out of line, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be called on it either. Have you been to their blog? Have you read the comments on news sites posted? Clearly, there are a lot more people that have issues with TSA that are outside of FT. I know some people from the blog have joined FT - but they had issues long before they came here.

You don't travel thru the US as much as many of those on here. That doesn't mean you can't have an opinion. But it also means that you haven't had the opportunities to deal with TSA on nearly as frequent basis as others do here. If you've had good experiences or no issues with them, good for you. That doesn't make the people who have had issues or bad experiences wrong, ignorant, beligerent or looking for a fight.

Super

When walking through the walk through metal detector, what do you present to the TSO there?

I don’t write on the TSA web site, I post to the EOS blog, on occasion. Look for the clarification, its there.

Circular thinking? The TSA is its own agency, tasked with specific transportation security related activities. As far as I know we don’t have a law enforcement function (although we do have law enforcement officers working for the TSA) anymore than the normal citizen, which is why LEO’s are provided when needed by local authorities. And to answer the rest of your question:

31 US Code § 5315
Or
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...rial_1848.shtm

I hope that helps.

As I mentioned earlier, like any other flyer, I have had some problems with the TSA. Indeed, I have discussed them here on TS/S. Please read the following post:

You will note that I did not rant and rave about the TSA being "morons" or claim that they all have a mouthwash "fetish". I reported what happened and did not use it as an excuse to trash every TSA employee.

I believe that I have had more problems with Security in the US than most of you who travel there more frequently than I do. For about two years after 9/11 I was SSSSed on every flight I took because my tickets were bought in Tel Aviv (this despite the fact that I was a Delta GM at the time).

The worst confrontations I had were in the months after 9/11 but before the TSA took over the inspections. Despite everything I have read here about how you (the collective "you") long for the days of the private companies doing the screening, it was my experience that they had no idea of what the regulations were and there was mass confusion.

Do I think that some of the FTers are looking for confrontations with the TSA? Definitely. When one person brags about how he refused to go through the inspection and another talks about how he refuses to speak with the TSA SPOT people, what else am I to believe?

I have no problem in the least with a poster coming on here and talking about a bad experience he had with the TSA -- as long as he does so honestly, without hyperbole, and using the same kind of language that he would like others to use about him.

Much of what appears on TS/S, however, is simply overblown hatred which seems to me to stem from the fact that as FFers we are some kind of elite who should not be bothered with the same security checks as (to use a term often posted here) "Ma and Pa Kettle".

My BP showing my flight from there. Anything beyond that isn't TSA's business.

And if I show a domestic flight, you don't know if I'm going internationally or not. There have been times I've gone to Asia from an east coast airport with onward boarding passes that weren't checked, nor should they be.

If it's there, you should easily be able to find it. Please post it.

Actually, all it does is reiterate the law. It doesn't show WHERE TSA HAS THE AUTHORITY TO EVEN ASK. No one's asking what the law is - we know it. We know Customs has the authority to ask and enforce that law. We're asking where TSA gets the authority to ask. If even your GC can't provide that, something tells me you're on shaky ground.

The "we're citizens too" bit doesn't cut it. When you put on that TSA uniform, you are an agent of the government. What you do under the color of authority can't be supplanted by "well, I'm just a citizen too." It doesn't work that way. Else cops could get around the law and the constitution by saying they weren't doing unconsitutional things as an LEO but rather as a citizen. Tell me how that would fly in court.

Ah, for once we agree.

You're right -- the purpose of TSA is, clearly, to reassure nervous casual travelers that it is safe to fly. TSA does not provide real security. If it did, there would not still be uninspected air cargo and U.S. mail placed aboard every commercial U.S. flight.

TSOs are actors playing at security theater -- participants in a dog-and-pony show that accomplishes absolutely nothing with respect to making flying safer. Other countries have airport security procedures that, at least on their face, appear to be similar. The difference, however, is that (1) their procedures are comprehensive, and (2) they are performed by real law enforcement officers who receive extensive training, know what they're doing, and understand the priorities of their job, which include acting politely and professionally towards passengers who are not all suspects.

Example: Intelligence agencies uncover a plot in London to assemble a liquid explosive on-board (supposedly -- I'll leave that debate for another thread). TSA, acting in a typically reactive mode, bans all liquids from carry-on. Passenger traffic drops dramatically because business travelers, the bread-and-butter of U.S. commercial airlines, cannot conveniently travel for business without checking bags. After several weeks of pressure from the airlines, TSA introduces the idiotic 3-1-1 rule that places plastic baggies in the front line of defense against terrorism. Simple math: 1 quart baggie x 16 determined terrorists = 4 gallons of potential liquid explosive. Are we safer? Absolutely not. However, the freedom baggie proves, beyond question, that TSOs are amateur actors playing at security theater.

If you can explain to me why U.S. mail and air cargo aren't 100% screened, and why the liquids threat has any validity if everyone can bring on a quart of them, I'll take your agency seriously. Otherwise, I'm not impressed with your collective acting skills, your waste of billions of dollars and your harassment of millions of people at the expense of the Constitution.