Tell me what you did in the War on Tewwow, grandpa!

Did you work for an agency so incompetent it was still experimenting with procedural changes almost 8 years into its mission? How come they could not get their act together? Did you try to make things better?

How many of your fellow soldiers in the war paid the ultimate price?

:rolleyes:

Please keep in mind that you are "talking" to frequent flyers here. Most of them with millions of miles flown and with many more interactions with TSO than what you get. The collective experience with TSA paints a pretty grim picture of what goes on at the checkpoints.

Oh, please spare me the whine. BTW, would you like some cheese to go with it?

And who would that be? Not a TSO, that's fer sure. Unless you count back injuries from lifting suitcases. Several TSO posting here have admitted they are in their jobs just for the government benefits, not for some lofty anti-terrorism goals.


If there was any accountability within TSA and if the complaints were handled in an appropriate manner, maybe there wouldn't be so much complaining still after 7 years of TSA.

What about you? How many TSA checkpoints have you visited in the last three years? What about airport security checkpoints in other countries?

I'm sorry but I can't let these remarks stand without comment.

TSO Ron said, "TSA is on the Front Line of America's Anti-Terrorism efforts."

Sorry TSORon, take a look at a map, Afghanistan is -------------> that way.
America's airports are not on the front lines nor are they dangerous.

How many TSO's have been wounded or killed in the line of duty since 9/11?

TSO's are paid well for the skill set needed to do the job your tasked with. If the pay is to low then move on to something else.

If you don't like your work environment then move on, we will all be better off.

I admit that I don't know you personally but from what you have told this forum about yourself some conclusion can be drawn.

Your ex military police, with if I remember 13'ish years of service. Your in your 50's.

Assuming you joined the service in your early 20's you left the service in your mid 40's. You must have bounced around for a few years before finding TSA. Does that about sum up your life?

Now it seems you feel the people who fly are the enemies your protecting someone from

Perhaps it's not the people posting here that are out of whack with current society.

Maybe the Green Beret's theme song? After all, those guys are getting shot at and actually engaging the terrorists in gun fights. However, that's clearly not as dangerous as working for TSA. After all, they have to stand there day after day, hour after hour next to garbage cans full of unidentified, explosive liquids that look like shampoo, Coke, and water. :rolleyes:

Or, it comes from experience and/or using powers of observation while standing in the security line. Or, it comes from interactions with people claiming to work for the TSA on message boards who act immaturely. Or, it comes from news reports about TSA employees doing things like breaking the law themselves.

My personal guess is, that in most instances, it's a combination of all of the above.

I agree with the above statements and try not to form an opinion of others until I've had adequate exposure to believe that I've seen enough behavior to establish a baseline for the person/agency. That's why I still view and respond to posts made by certain people on this message board... some I've only seen for a week or two, and while I have started establishing opinions I still feel it's too early to brand them as immature fools.

My opinions of TSA are based upon seeing them in uh, err, "action", for years.

I believe I've used the phrase "jack booted thugs" in a few threads, so I'll assume the statement may have been responding to something I said earlier. All I can say is that I call 'em as I see 'em.

When I experience rude, arrogant, near-militant TSOs who seem hell-bent on running their checkpoint like a POW camp, I think of jack-booted thugs. When I encounter people who think they have a right to demand answers to all questions they ask (whether appropriate or not), the word oppressive comes to mind.

When I encounter people who want to declare a Starbucks thermos as an item not allowed into the sterile area (just after them having made a comment about how "nice" the thermos was), I can only assume that they are trying to use their power to take something "nice" that they would like to have from me. (Yes, this has happened to me before, on two separate times, flying out of MLI. That's part of the reason why I've flown into ORD, rented a car, and made the 3 hour drive down there the last couple times I've visited friends out that way.)

TSOs sometimes fail to see the passenger behind the "perp". The men and women who get up at 4am to drive to the airport and be on an early morning flight, who endure the continuous laptop-in, laptop-out of the checkpoint and cattle-herding into small regional jets-- the people who are courageous enough to continue flying, despite all the published screw ups, mistakes, and blunders by the agency charged with keeping the flying public safe.

TSOs, in my experience, rarely understand that without us, the flying public, they would be out of jobs and standing back in the welfare line or at the unemployment office.

And the quote about being on the front line of America's Anti-Terrorism efforts is just too preposterous to even really deserve a reply. The only thing I can think of is the old G. I. Joe cartoons, and a TSO standing up in the middle of a checkpoint, magnetometer in hand and pointed to the sky like a rifle, shouting "Yo Joe!".

Hmm. Sounds like just about any other person's job to me. Nobody is ever happy with their pay, everybody always thinks they have to work too much, and nobody is ever completely satisfied with their work environment. It's a government job, so I'm not sure what else one would expect. Let's put things in perspective:

- The job of a TSO does not require any real skills that can't be acquired in a day or two of on-the-job training
- The job isn't very demanding (doesn't require much physical work, and certainly doesn't require much mental exertion)
- The job doesn't require much in way of education (no college degree is really necessary, and high school drop-outs could probably even run the equipment and screen the baggage after a day or two training at most)
- It's a government job, so it won't pay much

As for the remainder of that comment, well, let's consider this:
- Many other professions come into contact with far more dangerous unidentified materials than yours. Police, fire, and military come to mind immediately. And as a volunteer in this arena, I probably have been exposed to more dangerous materials than 95% of TSOs standing at a checkpoint.
- Diseases... well, everybody gets exposed to this at work. I can't think of a single job in America where people are not exposed to sick people in some way, shape, or form. And I'll refrain from getting into other nasty details like the scabies outbreak from TSA folks at BOS. Lord only knows how many of the flying public were exposed to that.
- Undeserved attitude and cussing out... well, all I can say is that it's something you need to deal with. Every job has its unpleasantness. Perhaps if TSA was more effective, didn't at least create the perception that so much taxpayer money was being wasted, didn't hold people up in line so much, didn't try to secretly strip search people via machines, and wasn't rude/condescending/know-it-all in the first place, they wouldn't get as much attitude back. From the way your remark is phrased, though, I infer that you don't think TSA has played a significant role in creating and propagating this problem.

TSORon, that's a nice piece of touchy-feely stuff you wrote. It sits in stark contrast with many of your other postings in many other threads, and does a nice job of trying to paint TSOs as people too.

But somehow I just can't reconcile the mental picture of TSOs joking with little children and welcoming people through the WMTD with smiles on their faces with the TSA I see on a weekly basis. It just seems too... 'plastic-like'... to be real.

Are you sure you're not trying out for a new blogger position at Propaganda Village? Or I guess you could possibly be Blogdad Bob himself, posting on here in disguise... ;)

There are very good reasons why most of the posting here is complaints. TSA is not doing a good job at fulfilling its mission, if its mission is indeed keeping our skies safe. TSA is not customer-friendly, held accountable for its mistakes, or wisely spending taxpayer dollars. And nobody there seems to be interested in making the necessary improvements to make it an effective organization. What you see here is the manifestation of a lot of pent-up anger and frustration because of this. There is a reason why "TSA" has come to mean things like "Thousands Standing Around" and "Totally Stupid *ssholes" to the frequently flying public; what you are experiencing here is this anger and frustration in a somewhat more concentrated form due to the frequent traveller status of many of this board's posters.

I can't speak for everybody, but a lot of my frustration is because of the above. But I'll also be one of the first to admit that a tiny part of it is because it is somewhat fun to make fun of the TSA too. Let's face it: they do such a bad job at their primary function that they are a pretty easy target.

Others have already responded, but there's one point that hasn't been covered here.

And if TSA's policies are ineffective, or counterproductive, then all of that personal sacrifice on the part of these loyal TSOs is wasted.

When a passenger registers a public complaint here, it is often easy to assume that the complaint is being made against the TSO who acted, rather than the TSA who made the policy being enforced. It should be possible to criticize the TSA without automatically assuming that it is a criticism of all TSOs.

Of course, it's entirely possible that a given passenger's bad experience at a checkpoint is due to the fault of an individual TSO. But, as many have pointed out repeatedly, since TSA has declined to publish its procedures and rules in a codified fashion, there's no way for a passenger to distinguish between a rogue TSO and a good TSO enforcing a bad TSA policy.

But to return to my first point. Yes, many TSOs are serving their country at personal sacrifice by working for the TSA. But noble people executing flawed policies does not make for noble outcomes.

Oh please, would you? When you get done come back and tell us all about it. THAT should be the highlight of my day.

And he still had the option to chose a different way to deal with the issue that would not have forced a confrontation. BTW, if you are going to try and use the “rights” thing, you might want to add in 5th amendment as well. Gives it flavor.

If they chose to request a LEO, well then that is their job now isn’t it. You can chose to take it anyway you like, call it what you like, but it is still a part of the job. I am fairly sure that they will be a bit more mature about it than you would.

And in the furtherance of the duties I am sworn to perform, I can ask those questions. As a citizen, you can refuse to answer the. More power to you. Have a good time. Can we prevent you from boarding an aircraft because you refuse to answer a question? Depends on the question, and what its about. Ya rolls the dice and ya takes your chances.

I’ll let the legal minds here look that one over, but I suspect that you are missing a few salient points in your argument. Important ones.

This much I know, and it is usually limited by the position one has and not by the general fact of government employment.

Now, have you gotten all that pent up hostility out yet? After all that name calling I should hope so. If not then we can continue, I at the very least can be civil when I chose to, and am more than willing to let you rant until your fingers fall off.

Preaching to the choir. We see policies every day that make us scratch our heads, and more than 50% of the TSO’s I work with have extensive experience in the field. I would think that we had seen it all, yet TSA can sill toss the odd screwball into the mix.

Agreed. Tone and wording have a great deal on how ones complaint is received, and few here take the time to separate out their concerns between the system and the individuals.

Just how many of those passengers would go and review all those rules and policies prior to approaching a checkpoint? We cant even get them to read the signs we place in their way, or listen to the announcements the PA system is shouting at them every 30 seconds.

Welllll, at least someone is willing to acknowledge it. “Noble outcomes”, interesting phrase. I prefer any outcome that does not involve another terrorist attack.

Please, spare us the martyr act. You clearly started this with your attitude. Don't like the hostility? Don't dish it. It is possible to be from TSA on here and actually be liked. Of course, it requires not being obnoxious.

And by the way, are you going to answer Spotnik's question? Quite honestly, as a BDO that's earned the respect from FT group (even if we don't like who she works for), surely you could elaborate on her question. After all, you're colleagues and even she, as a spotter, seemed to miss the hostility you keep bringing up in the STL encounter.

It doesn't matter when the rules change constantly or even what's being announced over the PA or signs are not what's enforced.

Do you or do you not acknowledge that there are TSO's that make up and change the rules as they go?

No one wants a terrorist attack. And TSA has yet to catch a terrorist. So TSA needs to stop treating us like terrorists.

That said, most, if not all of us, don't have a problem with the basic premise of TSA. It's that it keeps adding more and more things that don't actually do anything to promote security (you even admitted this in so many words) and their constant overreach into other areas that are the concern here.

All the rules? Probably none. Not everyone needs to know every rule every time they fly; but they need to know they can find the rules when they need them. I don't know every motor vehicle law in my state by heart ... but if I need to know whether or not I can turn left on red onto a one-way street, I know I can find a definitive answer if I look hard enough. Similarly, I haven't needed to know the rules about carrying cremated remains aboard an aircraft (thank goodness). But I'm glad to see that those particular rules are published, if I should ever find myself in that position.

But perhaps the most important reason for publishing the rules is this: in the event that a "dispute" happens between a TSO and a passenger over a particular procedure, there would be a public, objective standard to use in evaluating whether the TSO or passenger was wrong (or both). Right now, that standard doesn't exist.

And having public rules would help TSOs as well --- perhaps more than it helps passengers. During the famous "nipple-gate" incident, the TSOs involved were roundly criticized for their actions. It only became clear much later, by reading "between-the-lines" of the public statements of TSA and some TSOs, that the TSOs were following an unpublished SOP which did not permit them to take the most obvious action to resolve the conflict. The TSOs involved took a lot of abuse that they didn't deserve, and the TSA left them out there to take the hits. That's not fair to them.

Back in the Forensics club in high school, I was taught something: if you emphasize everything, you emphasize nothing. Of course people are going to ignore the continuously-running PA announcements; they are repeated so often that people consciously tune them out as background noise. TSA might consider repeating them less often.

But, again, not every end justifies the means. It was fear of terrorist attacks in the wake of the Reichstag fire that led von Hindenburg to suspend civil liberties in Germany, as a precursor to the rise of Nazi Germany. I don't think we want to make that mistake again.

(aside: yes, I know I'm flirting with Godwin's Law here, but I think this analogy qualifies for the exception)

There is so much wrong with this.

Wrong. This if FlyerTalk -- a website for frequent fliers. We all have far too much experience of TSA.

Wrong. Our objections are to specific policies and procedures, as well as the conduct of TSOs with whom we've interacted.

Wrong. Your agency is charged with protecting airline profits.

1. If liquids pose a danger on board, all liquids would be banned. 3/1/1 is a sop to the airlines who were in danger of losing their business travelers.

2. TSA doesn't screen all air cargo that is placed on board commercial passenger aircraft.

3. TSA doesn't screen all U.S. mail that is placed on board commercial passenger aircraft.

4. Reporting "extra cash," suspected pot, etc. has absolutely nothing to do with passenger safety.

Wrong. Most, if not all, have seen the lies (yes, lies) on the EOS blog, and have had bad experiences with TSOs at checkpoints that have cost us far more than 15 seconds.

It is sad that we have to take the sum total of all our interactions and from that form the negative impression we have of the agency.

Only when they act like jack-booted thugs.

Only when they ruin our day.

Only when they steal from us, as so many now-arrested TSOs have done.

Which they do every day.

Do you really believe this nonsense? "Front line of America's Anti-Terrorism efforts." What a joke. TSOs wouldn't have a clue what to do (other than yell for help from a real LEO) if Osama bin Laden himself walked through your checkpoint.

You want the front line? It's the FBI, the CIA, the NSA, our militiary, our police and our fire personnel. It sure as hell isn't the TSA crew who confiscate nail-clippers, illegally detain people and whose motto is, "Do you want to fly today?"

[quote]dangerous though it may be.[/quote}Dangerous? You can't be serious. How many TSOs have been injured in the line of duty?

[quote] They endure low pay, long and unusual hours, less than perfect working conditions, unidentified hazardous materials, the diseases and infections of those passengers they come into contact with, undeserved attitude and the occasional cussing out, and a whole host of other things that make the job less than pleasant at times. {/quote]To get a good job, get a good education.

98% are casual-flying sheep, whom your dog-and-pony show is designed to impress.

Yeah . . . the one's who have read the constitution (and the newspaper).

And why do you think that is?

No one is screaming.

That's right. And we will continue to do so as long as TSA continues to suck in tax dollars for absolutely no conceivable benefit.

Whereas we have the feeling that TSA has no interest whatsoever in changing its ways so that it becomes a responsible agency that actually provides security, rather than petty harassment.

And I'd glad give up some of that, "fun," by having an effective security procedure run by security professionals.

This is exactly why you and people who think like this should be removed from the TSO program immediately.

You cannot control the temptations regarding the power you have been given. You use your power as a weapon to compel people to answer questions that may or may not be valid, always with the Sword of Damocles dangling over their heads if they do not acquiesce to your whims.

There are only two options here: you are incapable of handling the extreme responsibilities of having power or you are not courageous enough to admit to the public that TSOs will routinely threaten the flying public with the inability to board their flight because the TSOs cannot get the answer they believe they so richly deserve.

In either scenario, you are not a sympathetic character. However, you cannot blame the public. You are the masters of your own destiny in this case.

Boggie Dog is right in this instance. TSA's job is limited to making sure that passengers and property do not present a threat to airplanes or aviation infrastructure. Yes, we are required to follow TSA work rules, but even those are ostensibly linked to the safety of aviation.

Actually, we have the authority to ask anything we like as it pertains to potential threats to aviation. We ought to be very careful with anything outside of that purview, so as to avoid unnecessary and inappropriate constraint of liberty.

Which rights did Mr. Bierfeldt have? How about the right to be treated with respect? The right to an honest answer to his questions? The right to know if he was, in fact, legally required to answer the questions posed to him? (He wasn't) The right to know if he was being detained? The right to contact a representative if he was, in fact, in legal jeopardy?

Please refer to my earlier post re: "both are to blame"

Actually, many of the people here have extensive experience with TSA. They can actually provide some insightful discussion and feedback if you give them a chance.

This is a description of any public security work. It may be frustrating, but that is the job you signed up for. It's also largely a safe job (well, except for the OJI issues) and comes with a decent pay/benefit package for the level of work and expertise required.

Oh, and I tend to do well with the passengers who see us a jack-booted thugs, ect. I had one passenger call me gestapo, and shake my hand by the end of the screening. It's all in how you treat people.

As you say, you have only been here a few weeks. There have been a significant number of potentially productive discussions on this forum. Yes, there are people who just want to complain, and there are people who just come here to bash/make fun of TSA. That's part of what you sign on for when you choose to represent TSA to the traveling public.

Can you at least stop denigrating constitutional and other civil rights and liberties on public forums? Some of us took that "protect and defend the Constitution of the United States..." thing seriously.

Actually, the point is that passengers should be able to easily access said rules and policies should they choose to educate themselves before approaching the checkpoint.

+10. Well said. Thank you. ^

OK, if we are going to have to live with TSA for a while, let's put Spotnik in charge, since he seems to actually get the concepts of logic and freedom. The STL situation and the fact that TSA actually has created a "legal" cash threshold that then became probable cause for a LEO interrogation shows that they have spun out of control. I may not fly as much as some members (17 flights during July of every year and a couple dozen the rest of the year) but I have been doing it internationally for 36 years. Most TSO's that I encounter are professional but there is no doubt that, just like some in LE, there are those that are still upset about not being allowed to be crossing guards in elementary school. TSORON's posts seem to take this tone. We are not the enemy. We are just trying to get to work in the most efficient manner possible and expect to be treated in a civil manner. In most business environments, especially in this type of economy, if someone is unable to treat their "customers" with civility and knowledge of their product they get terminated. Those that show leadership and common sense get elevated. "Cream rises". Let's do the same for the TSA.

The rules DO change often, and of course we are just as frustrated with that as you are. But that is neither here nor there. Most rules don’t change very often, like the one that says No Knives. Yet we still collect 25-30 knives a day at each of the checkpoints in my airport. Or the rule that says No Firearms, yet the TSA catches usually about 15 to 25 per week on its various checkpoints.

Can you explain why people cant get those rules straight? I sure cant, and I am one of the one’s who have to tell people time and again that there is actually some metal in that cell phone.

As stated, no, I cannot agree with that statement. I can say that there are occasions when a TSO is unclear on certain aspects of the rules, or where the rules may be a bit ambiguous, or where the rules don’t really cover what is obviously a dangerous item. But to deliberately make up rules just to irritate a passenger? No.

The TSA treats you like passengers. Terrorists get a whole different type of treatment.

Our job is not to catch terrorists. Its to prevent them. By our presence, our screening, or SOP’s and our inspectors, along with the other layers of security that the TSA/DHS oversees, we PREVENT terrorist attacks.

Sure there are areas where I don’t understand TSA’s reasoning. But then again with all my experience in the field, with all my knowledge, I bashfully admit that I don’t know it all. There are people out there in the TSA who know far more about the field than I do, and they may see the reasons for policy that you or I cannot. Additionally, we get intelligence from the various agencies of the government that I never have access to, but others do (policy makers) and they base decisions and policies on what that intelligence tells them. I get to see some of the stuff that comes down from on-high, and its pretty interesting stuff. Some of it makes even less sense than the policies that they are changing, but then again life is stranger than fiction.

No, you don't.:rolleyes:

If someone wanted to get to an aircraft with some sort of contraband that is banned by your "agency", they could. Why, again, do I see TSA agents walk through the metal detectors without getting patted down when they make it go off?

I am the true last line of defense in protecting my passengers and my aircraft. We've got policies and procedures that are in place that allow passengers to go about their daily lives as if there was nothing different.

TSA slogan
 

Winning the war on terror one shoe at a time:D

Where’s the public list of prohibited items? Ambiguous “hints and tips” don’t count.

You have been trying to change people's minds on the TSA? Ok see this is where you messed up.

You can't change people's minds by posting drivel on some forum. The only way you (TSA) can change people's minds about the TSA is to start listening to their concerns and positively act on them.

Pretending that the TSA does everything it does in the interest of real safety/security is ludicrous. We have exposed many gaping holes in the security of the TSA and have even explained how to fix those holes. We have shown what is purely theater and wasted resources and we have shown potentially unconstitutional aspects of the TSA.

Have you noticed Dean has a lot of friends on this forum? He wears the same uniform as you do and he does the same job as you do following the same SOP. So what makes Dean different?

Could it be the fact that he knows a good portion of his daily song and dance is inconsequential to security? Could it be that he does understand what constitutes real security and he wants the checkpoints to focus on those aspects? Could it be that he is not a zealot apologist for the blinding stupidity of the TSA?

Look inward Grasshopper to find peace, one day you will be able to snatch the stone from my hand.

Thank You!
 

Thank you very much for an extremely well written and thoughtful post, spotnik. It is refreshing to see that there are folks who get it. Who can grasp what TSA should do. All too often do we see the opposite attitude.

I don't know if Dean feels that way about what TSA does or not. I know that he's at least friendly about it, explains it how it is and seems to be an all-around friendly guy. I get the sense he does a good job without being obnoxious about it.

I'd also add Spotnik to the list of respected around here. Spotnik tries to do the job as assigned but errs on the side of people's rights and shows them respect.

There are other TSO's around here that have generally good reps as well. Some of which had unfortunately disappeared. Others haven't been around in awhile but were generally well received.

And, of course, there are those that aren't.

Neither makes it out to be a crusade or jihad to convert people to the TSA gospel. I think both share our desire to see air travel be safe. Regardless of what we think of TSA, I think both show us that there are good people within TSA.

You're right - no one's going to be able to convert people to the TSA gospel or change minds. TSA is the only one capable of doing that, and they have to do that by showing people. Talk is cheap. Show us the money. The problem is, TSA isn't interested in doing that.

So really, the evangelizing isn't going to do much, and if it anything, it's harming the cause.

Actually, Ron, you haven't really responded to anyone's concerns. You simply prattle on about how you are a TSO and that should immediately mean respect from the citizenry because - somehow - you putting on the TSO uniform makes you an expert. Some of your answers on this very forum indicate such a belief is pretty misguided (such as your initial insistence that carrying more than $10,000 out of the country was, in fact, illegal).

You are, of course, free to call people names and insult them and wave your smug attitude of superiority as much as you wish.

But, honestly, I would prefer you simply spend your valuable free time learning about what it really means to be TSO.

I would like to add my kudos to spotnik as well. Thank you.

Isn't it interesting the TSORon could find time to reply to all the "complainers" but hasn't said a peep in response to spotnik's well thought-out post? That says a great deal about TSORon, none of it good.

Absolutely outstanding analogy, and spot-on.

^^^

--PP

And since a certain poster has come one here(I bet we can all guess:D) my dislike for the TSA has been re enforced.

To the other tso's on here THANK YOU. I'm sorry this one guy is bringing you all down.

Hanlon's law says "never ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." I carry a Swiss army knife in my pocket all the time. I have to consciously remember to take it out of my pockets when I travel by airplane; a couple of times, I've caught it in my pocket while parking my car at the airport and had the change to leave it in my car. Heck, if Alvin Crabtree can forget about the firearm he brought to the checkpoint, why is it so unusual that passengers forget?

And, as you point out, 20 firearms per week, in comparison with the millions of passengers who transit a checkpoint each week, is really a very, very, very small percentage. Probably as small as the percentage of TSOs who steal from passengers.

Except that our silence in response to those questions could be interpreted as "suspicious behavior" by a TSO, thereby subjecting us to additional, invasive screening procedures. (Unless you're willing to tell me otherwise?)

Actually, TSORon, the explanation is quite simple. The majority of travelers who transit the checkpoint on any given day are either first-time air passengers or have not flown in many years. You interact with air travel rules 16-40 hours a week (or more), 49-52 weeks a year. (I don't know or particularly care about the specifics of your employment status. It is not my business, or the business of those on this forum.)

The travelers you see on a daily basis typically interact with air travel rules a few hours a year or less. Many probably have not interacted with air travel rules in 10, 20, or more years. If you can't tolerate repeating the same information, day in, day out, for these people because it is new to them, perhaps you chose the wrong line of work.

Okay, here I will offer some qualified agreement. I don't believe the typical TSO deliberately makes up rules just to irritate a passenger. I think it is far more common that they don't know the rules and try their best to handle the situation. I think this usually is a result of failures in hiring standards, training, or management.

Deterrence cannot be accurately measured, which makes this too easy an argument.

Also, the job of the screening checkpoint is to keep dangerous things off airplanes.

TSORon, if you want to change people's minds about TSA, you can most effectively do so by performing well at the checkpoint. Become an exemplary TSO. Treat all people with decency and respect. Remain calm and patient in the face of abuse and derision. Know your job in minute detail. Spend any time you have left over attempting to change TSA for the better.

If you want to change people's minds on this forum, treat them with decency and respect. Remain calm and patient in the face of abuse and derision. Post only well considered and and researched responses. Post links to back your statements. Stop calling yourself a security expert, as real security experts demonstrate that status through their actions and insight. Stop demanding respect, as respect is only given to those who earn it.

Ron, this statement bothers me more than anything else I have seen you post. Do you really think it is acceptable to come on this forum, represent yourself as a TSO, then proceed to display arrogance, contempt, and derision towards the other members of this site? Surely I misunderstand the meaning of your statement. I would really like to help you develop your professionalism as a TSO. It is possible to do the job correctly and still respect citizens' rights and the US Constitution. In fact, it will likely make you a better TSO.

As for the rest of you:
So many of you have been saying such nice things about me. I'm actually rather embarrassed. Thank you very much for all the kind sentiments.

Of course, I am beginning to suspect that one of my brethren TSAer's may have used the ignore button on me. *sigh*

Dang it you made me do math on a Friday.

20 guns from 14 million passengers is 1 gun per 700,000 passengers a week. (0.00014285714285714287%)

The TSA employs about 45,000 TSOs. The average number of TSOs fired each year for theft is approximately 28 or 1 per 1607 TSOs. (0.06222222222222223%)

As you can see the percentage of thieves that wear the TSO uniform is huge compared to the percentage of stupid, forgetful or nefarious passengers that bring a gun.

Argh! Math. My bane... :D

When you put it that way, the stats are actually kind of depressing.

Without reading any of the rest of the thread:

Where'd you get that number?

In December 2008, TSA Spokesperson Ellen Howe 'fessed up to 465 TSO fired for theft:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/09/bu...3&ref=business

465/5.75 years in operation ("spring of 2003" through December 2008) is roughly 80 per year...so let's call 28 per year a "conservative estimate." :mad:

Yeah, depressing.

http://www.hrblunders.com/200-baggag...-for-stealing/

I had forgotten about Francine's admission.

Hm. Okay. Just curious.

Like I said, I haven't read any more of the thread except for the first page, and, like, the last two or three posts.

I just did a search using the criteria of "screener theft firing" to find the page.

If I am getting far afield OT here I apologize, and I certainly don't want to get into a cranky argument about numbers, but something is waaaay off here.

I searched the PV for anything about theivery, and I never did see anyone official at TSA 'fessing up to nothin' ...where did Francine say it was 200?

All I found was this exchange involving a TSA Blog Team member and a better-informed Anonymous poster, which did not engender much confidence:

At the end of 2008, the official TSA spokesone, Ellen Howe, is quoted in the Newspaper of Record putting the figure at 465.

If TSA ever decides to attack the public relations problems it suffers from perceptions of thievery, Step One would be an honest accounting of how many pax complained and pointed the finger at TSA, how many of those complaints TSA dismissed and on what grounds, and how many of those wound up in dismissal, criminal action or both for a TSO.

I can't find that level of information anywhere.

I was referring to the 465 number not the 200. AND I mistakenly attributed it to Francine.

I am not always perfect but I try. (ok that is a lie)

You are always aces in my book, TK.

What I find worrisome is 465 TSOs fired for theft over 5-6 years, of course, but also only 465 TSOs fired for theft at an agency that seems to have logged in something like 50,000 to 60,000 theft complaints over that same time period.

I know American Transport Association complained to TSA in 2004 that reports of thefts from baggage were all-of-a-sudden way up over previous years after TSA took over airport security, and wanted an explanation and some action, but so far I haven't seen anything other than airlines saying TSOids are swiping the stuff and TSA saying it's those thieves in airline baggage.

Somewhere, in the gap between 50,000 complaints and 465 fired TSOs I suspect some light-fingered TSOids are getting away with it.

I have no evidence of nothing on this, just speculation, but to me, the numbers are worrisome.