Is toothpaste a paste or a liquid?
 

I have been travelling in the US for over a year with a 4.2oz tube of toothpaste (not gel) in my carryon (not in the the 1 quart bag) with no problem. The other morning my bag got pulled off the xray line for toothpaste detected on the machine. The tube clearly state "paste" not "gel" but I was told that it was not allowed. Further more the TSA agent told me that "anything in a squeezeable container greater than 3oz was a no no!"

When did this new rule arrive. The web, the placards in the airport, etc, all prohibit liquids, gels, and aerosols, not pastes! There are some countries that specifically state "No Pastes" right on their signs but I have never seen this in the US.:confused:

A more accurate way of stating the rules as inconsistently enforced would be, "If it isn't bone-solid (marrow not included), it's a liquid."

Gasses and plasmas aren't on the signs either, but they aren't solid.

You got a nitwit of a screener who just made things up - there is no such rule, however 3.4 oz is the limit, but it has nothing to do with a 'squeezable' container. They consider a paste the same as a gel.

Your 4.2 container was over the limit, hence the involuntary forfeiture.

Next time, try harder to artfully conceal your over-the-limit liquids and gels :)

"Next time, try harder to artfully conceal your over-the-limit liquids and gels "

Or you could just be a grown up and ask this question before you get stuck in line and delay the travel of those behind you. It's not as if these rules are new. Over a million miles and you're global services and you seriously need to ask this question? :rolleyes:

Maybe it is because I have never run into such an incompent in the US before. Why is it other countries in the world specify "NO PASTE" when they mean no paste. Then are you telling me that if I am going on a fishing trip and desire to carryon my special bait which is a proprietary dough mixture I can not - seems to me dough is classified as a paste and thence is a liquid by your implications?

Yawn.

I prefer to artfully conceal my dangerous liquids. If it inconveniences you if I get caught, oh well.

Should the government break out Roget's Thesaurus? It's odd that even in this forum that I haven't seen any threads asking about paste before and yet you think it's a huge issue. Is a paste a solid? Ask yourself that question and you should pretty easily be able to reckon whether or not it is impacted by the rules in question.

It inconveniences everyone behind you if you get caught. Much like it inconveniences others if you bring too many carryons on board, throw your coat in the overhead bin before everyone has a chance to put a bag up, etc.

People like you are exactly why security lineups go slow. It's general selfishness and lack of consideration for others that causes delays in security.

General, don't be so hard on yourself!

You're not the cause of delays in security! Stoooopid TSA rules are the cause of delays in security.

I once asked a woman to surrender her water bottle because liquids, gels, creams, and lotions were prohibited. She angrily asked me why her water was not allowed. I told her that water is a liquid. She looked me square in the eye and said "this is water not a liquid". I shook my head apologized then walked away. I'm always surprised how open the rule can be to interpretation.

For the record, I have never met a TSO who indicated to any passenger that toothpaste over 3.4oz is acceptable.

What if the toothpase is 1/2 "sqooze out", leaving only 2.1 oz? Do the "rules" specify the original packaged amount, or the amount which is actually there?

Just trying to add a little more fuel to the fire. :D


DD

LOL there is a no haggling policy.

Exactly. The rules allowing medications over the limit are not new. Since dentifrices containing fluoride are FDA-regulated drugs (i.e. medications), they should be allowed in quantities in excess of 100mL (as long as they're declared to the screeners).

Only non-FDA regulated toothpastes should be subject to the 100mL limit.

Of course that would be a legitimate application of the rules, so it will never happen.

Periodic Table
 

If I ever have the distinction to work for TSA, I would carry a copy of the Periodic Table in my pocket. Whenever passengers are flummoxed about paste or liquids, I would retrieve it and give a quick discourse in basic chemistry.

Hahaha, even though I'm chuckling at this, it is strictly speaking correct, and I like it.

I wonder if the same would work with sunscreens in Australia (where it is regulated and requires a licence number) - and I do actually medically require sunscreen use.

:rolleyes:

The US FDA considers sunscreens (at least real ones) to be drugs, and thus, logically, exempt from the 100mL limit.

FDA's PDF slide show for dummies (see page 4)

Sunscreens, antiperspirants, dandruff shampoos, and fluoride toothpastes are all medicines as defined by the US Federal government. It is not within the TSA's purview to declare that such items are not medicines.

I once had a dangerous paste confiscated from my carry-on. They took my mascara.

I had no problem getting sunscreen (over 3 oz) thorugh a checkpoint once, the TSO even saw it. Had they desired to take it, the back mentioned all the drug facts, etc, so I was prepared to fight... I mean, ask, that I be allowed to keep it.

I was seriously expecting some "You're a wise..." um... "donkey." replies to this. How disappointing.:D

I have a gel antiperspirant labeled 4oz (of course that's weight; hint: weight is generally used to quantify solids), a larger bottle of Listerine, etc. going into my bag. They all have the requisite "Drug Facts" label.

Instead of asking the TSO if he/she is licensed to practice medicine, I can ask if he/she is licensed to regulate medicines.

It's the size of the container, not the contents. At least, that's the way the rule is written.

Which, frankly, is fine with me. Getting through the checkpoint is hard enough without having a debate with a screener about whether or not my 5.5oz toothpaste tube is more than 62% full (since 5.5 * 62% = 3.4oz).

Yes, that means that perfectly reasonable amounts of LGAs can't be brought aboard in carry-on luggage. But if you're going to have a rule limiting LGAs, this rule is at least easy to execute. All everyone has to do is read the label.

Note: I'm not arguing that the reason for excluding LGAs is valid. I'm just saying that if you're gonna restrict it, keeping the rule simple is a good thing.

:confused:

The Periodic Table only charts elements, not compounds, nor does it detail phase changes (the temperatures/pressures at which elements or compounds change from solid to liquid, liquid to gas, or sublime).

Water, H2O, is a compound of two elements, hydrogen (H) and oxygen (O). At temperatures common to most checkpoints, hydrogen would be a gas, and oxygen would be a gas…

Ooooh, wait, I get it, I get it!!!

One bottle of water, composed of two gases, comin' through :D:D:D

I have heard the TSA state if it pours or smears it is a liquid. That means just about anything can be considered a liquid. Also it is the container not the liquid in side that determines the size.

The one I loved was a lady trying to convince TSA that perfume was not a liquid, just because it cost her a couple hundred bucks :-)

This brings up a interesting question. If my bottle is designated in oz (weight) as opposed to ozl (volume), what determines if its allowed?

If it's more than 3.4 (or 3.0, at some checkpoints) it's not allowed. Little details like weight vs volume are too much for them. :rolleyes:

If you'd like to explain to TSA how idiotic this is, you'll have to wait your turn. Read more here.

Thanks for the insight. I'm actually going to present this to my management. Great debate topic, by the way.

What happens when I try to bring a bottle of frozen water past the checkpoint? It isn't a liquid at that point. :D

DD

From the tsa.gov website:
Frozen gels/liquids are permitted if required to cool medical and infant/child exemptions. Frozen gels/liquids for any other purpose are not permitted.

The TSA website clearly states, "3.4 ounce bottle or less (by volume)" and toothpaste is not marked by volume but weight (grams). I think the next time I get this Cr-p from TSA I am going to ask them to pull out their measuring cup or give me their name and badge number.;)

Maybe ignorance really is bliss?

Yeah, I hear you. But Blogger Bob over at Propaganda Village (see link in my previous post) as much as said it was too much to expect their little brains to deal with all those slide-tables and log-rules to calculate the volume of toothpaste when it's labelled in weight. So they've just decided to ignore established definitions and pretend that oz (fluid) = oz (weight) = oz (merry old land of). :rolleyes:

If you got metric toothpaste ;) marked in grams not ounces, you should be okay as they probably won't know what grams are. :p I don't want to discourage you from challenging them, but I predict you'll get a typical "just following rules" reply. Or D.Y.W.T.F.T.

Always remember that we're dealing with an organization that thinks "frozen liquid" is a state of matter. :D

Sorry, a little late to this party, but are you actually trying to imply that gasses are not permitted? So only solids carried in a perfect vacuum are permissible through the check-point? Or do you also consider a vacuum a gas? Remember this is physics, and as the TSA proves daily, it's not a friendly place for amateurs.

You're so right. They practiced this garbage science by embarking on the delusion that explosives only exist in a single state of matter, and continue to pronounce to anyone who'll listen (fewer and fewer listen all the time) that all liquids (with exceptions to the nth degree, each exclusion disproving TDA's starting premise) could be explosives and that on-board explosives are halted by confiscating all liquids >3.4 "oz." at the check-point.

Meanwhile the general is horribly delayed as this dumbed down to <zero version of physics and chemistry is foisted on the disbelieving.

On average, 2x/week, I run across an organization, (~45,000 employees I believe) where the leadershio was so paranoid about a group of inept amateur terrorists that they disposed of (or never actually understood) all recent knowledge of chemistry and physics, and concluded that they could prevent all future on-board explosives by keeping all liquids brought on the plane (by passengers only) below an arbitrary amount. All 45,000 employees enforce this junk dogma with minimal exceptions, at significant expense to the travelling public.
The original amateur terrorists were acquitted of most charges and all charges involving aircraft, but the delusionary policy continues in the face of clear scientific and logical evidence that preventing explosives on planes by micromanaging an irrelevant factor, one of the states of matter, is misguided and counterproductive.
I'm always disgusted by how easily and widely lies and deception can spread throughout a government organization and then be used to punish and harm the very public that funds and should be able to influence and manage that organization.

Veering away from the subject a bit, I saw for the first time a sign with maximum container size of 3.4. at STL airport. I didn't understand, so I Googled and found this web site.

Does anyone know where 100 ml size containers of toothpaste, shampoo and shaving cream can be found? I know smaller sizes exist, I have them already, but if 100 ml is a standard size outside the US, they're probably available via the web. And is there an official posted guideline on the 100 ml volume (tsa.gov?) that I can print out and carry if I need to convince a TSO or supervisor?

You might be interested in this thread and the link to the TSA PV. Welcome to FlyerTalk, Victorbast!

I found the official TSA guideline: 3.4 ounce bottle or less (by volume). http://www.tsa.gov/311/

Still looking for a place I can buy that size toothpaste and shaving cream.

Here in Canada, a "standard" toothpaste is 75ml. The Body Shop's shaving cream very is nice, and the 100ml tube a perfect size for the job.

If it weren't for the fact it's classed as dangerous goods :rolleyes: I'd love to take a vial of Caesium on board..... " Now it's a liquid, now it's a solid :D) "

Failing that I will nip into the lab tomorrow and try and find something with a Triple Point around room temperature, and then place it in a pressurized container at it's TP. That would mess with their heads. " Now it's a solid, now a liquid, now a gas" :D

Um, I usually find them next to the sink every time I check into a hotel...

I've also seen in various travel shops packs of 100ml bottles packed inside a transparent l liter bag, so you can put what you want in (shampoo, toothpaste, whatever) and have it all ready to go.

But in any case, most shops do sell 100ml bottles of most products.

Reviving a recent, but old thread:

Last Monday I was flying through Denver, and I had my toothpaste confiscated because it was heavier than 3 oz. (we know that the restriction should be about volume, but it has ended up being about weight). I had a problem with this for two reasons. First, the TSO removed the toothpaste from the bin and handled it without gloves and without my permission. The other problem I have is that I consider this toothpaste to be an OTC medication.

I have sensitive teeth, and I use Sensodyne, which has, along with fluoride, potassium nitrate, to desensitize the teeth. The TSO, lead officer, and supervisor all said that all toothpaste has fluoride, so that is not an OTC medication. They also said that I would need a prescription to bring it through.

I tried logic:

1) It's an OTC medication, prescription is not required. I don't have a prescription for my 5 OZ bottle of contact lens cleaner.

2) It contains two drugs, here is a printout of an FDA presentation stating fluoridated toothpaste is a medication.

Reply: Doesn't apply to toothpaste. My problem is that I cannot find this product in "allowable" sizes, and this is the third time this has happened to me. Usually I get it through, but since I fly a minimum of twice a week, it is quickly becoming a big problem.

Denver is the biggest issue. Is there someone I can complain to that is Denver specific? I have already written my Congress person as well as the American Dental Association.

Thanks

Edited to Add:

The most responsive party in all of this is Glaxo Smithkline, the manufacturer of Sensodyne. They contacted me almost immediately by email to set up a call to get the facts. They, not surprisingly, seem to have an interest in letting TSA know not to hassle their customers.

I had the same problem and solved it by injecting Sensodyne in to an empty, clean, small tube of Colgate. Worked like a charm and I can now carry Sensodyne on the plane.

That's, unfortunately, a good idea.

There is a line from the movie xXx, where Vin Diesel says, "The things I'm gonna do for my country." Seems applicable here. :td: