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-   -   Americans returing from Cuba (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/917495-americans-returing-cuba.html)

gglave Feb 3, 2009 5:06 pm


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 11195161)
Wouldn't they have to demonstrate that you spent money there as per the posts above?

The act of purchasing a ticket on a flight that lands in Cuba demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of your ticket fee pays for the landing rights for the aircraft at a Cuban airport.

whirledtraveler Feb 3, 2009 5:46 pm


Originally Posted by gglave (Post 11196814)
The act of purchasing a ticket on a flight that lands in Cuba demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of your ticket fee pays for the landing rights for the aircraft at a Cuban airport.

The act of purchasing bread at a grocery store demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of the money is paid in taxes that support policies which benefit Cuba in trade negotiations with other countries.

Richelieu Feb 3, 2009 5:52 pm


Originally Posted by gglave (Post 11196814)
The act of purchasing a ticket on a flight that lands in Cuba demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of your ticket fee pays for the landing rights for the aircraft at a Cuban airport.

By this line of reasoning, a part of any ticket sold by any airline servicing Cuba is devoted to paying the fuel, some of which is bought in Cuba (for plane going there, but as revenue isn't this individualized...

You could have a point with airport tax, but not airport tax.

Richelieu Feb 3, 2009 5:55 pm


Originally Posted by whirledtraveler (Post 11195161)
Wouldn't they have to demonstrate that you spent money there as per the posts above?

I'd add that flying to Cuba proves you have a ticket in you name, not that you bought it yourself, so they'd certainly have to demonstrate money spending even if they took airport tax into account.

sbm12 Feb 3, 2009 6:09 pm

The airport tax is paid in hard currency on arrival. There is no avoiding it. If you arrive by air you have spent money in Cuba.

jamar Feb 4, 2009 9:49 am

So arrive by sea?

gglave Feb 4, 2009 9:50 am


Originally Posted by Richelieu (Post 11197086)
By this line of reasoning, a part of any ticket sold by any airline servicing Cuba is devoted to paying the fuel, some of which is bought in Cuba (for plane going there, but as revenue isn't this individualized...

You could have a point with airport tax, but not airport tax.

*Shrug*

Doesn't affect me anyway - I'm Canadian. I've been to Cuba on holiday. Flew there non-stop from Canada (loved the vacation). I smoke Cuban cigars and legally buy Cuban rum.

My American friends on my cigar forums have told me that, according to the officials they've spoken to, the act of buying a ticket on a plane which touches down in Cuba means you've 'traded with an enemy.'

bdschobel Feb 4, 2009 12:23 pm

Confirming and expanding on points already made: Treasury imposes these civil penalties on Americans who travel to Cuba without permission. The standard fine is $7500. The standard of evidence is not the same as in a criminal case. Civil fines can be imposed much more easily. The TSA does the same thing, by the way, to people who attempt to smuggle prohibited items or "interfere with screening."

Believe it or not, the U.S. government stations people at Canadian airports to spot Americans disembarking from airplanes coming from Cuba. They get those people at U.S. immigration, which is physically in Canada. They just follow them within the airport. It's like shooting fish in a barrel! :(

Bruce

thebat Feb 4, 2009 1:07 pm


Originally Posted by Sydneysider (Post 11195210)
Maybe, but it seems to me that the burden of proof is shifting from "innocent until proven guilty" to its opposite.

Just like about every IRS regulation. It's just not our country anymore.

sarming Feb 4, 2009 3:44 pm

Travel to Cuba
 
Its very strange to me that travel to cuba is subject to so many US restrictions but travel to North Korea is ok.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforce...cii/nkorea.txt

It's a good trip - check out http://www.koryogroup.com

sbm12 Feb 4, 2009 8:10 pm


Originally Posted by jamar (Post 11200620)
So arrive by sea?

I was in EYW in 2001 on a dive trip. The captain of the boat detailed for us just how easy it is to make the trip to Cuba by sea and get away with it. You basically stock up on groceries before you leave so you can claim that you didn't spend money on food and pack enough gas to not need to buy while there. Doesn't make it legit, but it certainly is easier.

MatthewLAX Feb 4, 2009 8:22 pm

I did not vote for Obama, but I would applaud him vociferously if he lifted the arcane and insidious travel, er "spending" ban, re: Cuba.

lobster7 Feb 4, 2009 11:40 pm


Originally Posted by sbm12 (Post 11197173)
The airport tax is paid in hard currency on arrival. There is no avoiding it. If you arrive by air you have spent money in Cuba.

So wouldn't it work if you payed them in Canadian $ or Euro? Your not spending hard US currency which seems to be what they don't like.

bdschobel Feb 5, 2009 4:41 am

My understanding is that the issue isn't what kind of currency you spend but, rather, "trading with the enemy." You could use yen, and it wouldn't get around the ban.

Bruce

nytango Feb 5, 2009 4:55 am


Originally Posted by bdschobel (Post 11201737)
Confirming and expanding on points already made: Treasury imposes these civil penalties on Americans who travel to Cuba without permission. The standard fine is $7500. The standard of evidence is not the same as in a criminal case. Civil fines can be imposed much more easily. The TSA does the same thing, by the way, to people who attempt to smuggle prohibited items or "interfere with screening."

Believe it or not, the U.S. government stations people at Canadian airports to spot Americans disembarking from airplanes coming from Cuba. They get those people at U.S. immigration, which is physically in Canada. They just follow them within the airport. It's like shooting fish in a barrel! :(

Bruce

They also photograph people on arriving flights from Cuba. I know someone who spent two days in Canada before returning to U.S after being in Cuba and they pulled him out of line and questioned him and showed him a photo of him arriving from Cuba....


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