Americans returing from Cuba
 

I'm curious: Are there any ramifications for American citizens returning from Cuba? What about US green card holders coming back from Cuba?

Neither US Citizens nor LPRs are permitted to travel to Cuba without state department authorization. If such a person went to Cuba via Canada, Mexico or the Bahamas, they can request that Cuban authorities not stamp their passport.

The ramifications would be a fine - and perhaps worse for the LPR.

I went to grad school with a guy who got caught coming back to the US from Cuba via Mexico. CBP fined him, IIRC, $10,000. He got the Cubans to stamp a piece of paper instead of his passport, but the CBP agent was suspicious and looked at his digital camera, where he found pictures of my classmate that were obviously in Cuba.

It's not illegal to go to Cuba, it's just illegal to spend money there. As far as coming back, make sure Cuban Immigration does not stamp your passport coming or going. Easy enough. Use only cash, don't use a credit card, don't try global roaming with a cell phone, just use an unlocked GSM phone and buy a chip and credits while there.

If they can prove that you went to Cuba and spent money there, Treasury is who levies the fine, not CBP, since you're not banned from going there, just spending money.

Cite?

I do not have a cite but the post you are questioning is accurate. The rule is about spending money there, not visiting. And the fine is officially issued by the Treasury. The law has to do with currency control (they don't want US hard currency in Cuba) which is why it is a Treasury thing.

Correct. The US Government does not have right to restrict you from traveling outside the US. I also believe that the Treasury fine is considered a civil penalty, not a fine per se.

All a bunch of legal maneuvering to stop Americans from going to Cuba when they the government has no Constitutional authority to outright prohibit you.

Here is the link to the website. It isn't really about 'hard currency' per se. The restriction comes under the Trading with the Enemy Act.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforce...uba/cuba.shtml

Read this very carefully and heed the advice: do not fly from Canada to Cuba.

Our "friends" at DHS require the manifests for flights that cross US airspace, even if the flight doesn't land in the United States. If they see US passports on a YYZ-HAV flight, they can easily forward your information to Treasury which may slap you with a stiff fine.

If you go (and not that I'd know anything about this from personal experience, of course) go from Cancun.

Wouldn't they have to demonstrate that you spent money there as per the posts above?

There is a cash arrival tax that is paid on landing. It would be rather difficult to arrive via air and not spend money there.

Maybe, but it seems to me that the burden of proof is shifting from "innocent until proven guilty" to its opposite.

They could also make the (reasonable) argument that you couldn't stay in Cuba for a week or two and not spend any money. The violation of OFAC would be inescapable.

Interesting. Can a green card holder lose that status for travelling to Cuba?

For the record, I think the whole thing is ridiculous.

All the more reason for this horrible policy to change.

If we lift the embargo on Cuba, then hopefully we will be able to begin importing their produce into the US including sugar.

I'm sure Obama would not want that to happen though since his home state is so dependent on mainland US to purchase their sugar. I've heard (but have no sources) that buying Cuban sugar would kill the Hawaiian sugar industry.

Last time I was in Europe everyone thought it was so interesting that I hadn't been to Cuba since they all wanted to go. I said I can't go to Cuba. It's not worth it to me to go through all the steps to go to Cuba right now so I play by the rules.

The Hawaiian sugar industry is a fraction of what it once was - and it wouldn't be threatened by Cuban sugar. OTOH, the Florida sugar industry could be decimated, which given many of the big players are former Cuban emigrants (The "We Love Destroying the Everglades" Fanjul family is one example), would be quite a payback.

The Cuban emigres are, by and large, strong supporters of right-wing Republican causes - so perhaps Obama wouldn't be too sensitive to their plight.

I wouldn't say lose their green card, although that's always a risk - but when it came time to naturalize, the trip to Cuba might cause a problem with that process.

The act of purchasing a ticket on a flight that lands in Cuba demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of your ticket fee pays for the landing rights for the aircraft at a Cuban airport.

The act of purchasing bread at a grocery store demonstrates 'spending money' as a percentage of the money is paid in taxes that support policies which benefit Cuba in trade negotiations with other countries.

By this line of reasoning, a part of any ticket sold by any airline servicing Cuba is devoted to paying the fuel, some of which is bought in Cuba (for plane going there, but as revenue isn't this individualized...

You could have a point with airport tax, but not airport tax.

I'd add that flying to Cuba proves you have a ticket in you name, not that you bought it yourself, so they'd certainly have to demonstrate money spending even if they took airport tax into account.

The airport tax is paid in hard currency on arrival. There is no avoiding it. If you arrive by air you have spent money in Cuba.

So arrive by sea?

*Shrug*

Doesn't affect me anyway - I'm Canadian. I've been to Cuba on holiday. Flew there non-stop from Canada (loved the vacation). I smoke Cuban cigars and legally buy Cuban rum.

My American friends on my cigar forums have told me that, according to the officials they've spoken to, the act of buying a ticket on a plane which touches down in Cuba means you've 'traded with an enemy.'

Confirming and expanding on points already made: Treasury imposes these civil penalties on Americans who travel to Cuba without permission. The standard fine is $7500. The standard of evidence is not the same as in a criminal case. Civil fines can be imposed much more easily. The TSA does the same thing, by the way, to people who attempt to smuggle prohibited items or "interfere with screening."

Believe it or not, the U.S. government stations people at Canadian airports to spot Americans disembarking from airplanes coming from Cuba. They get those people at U.S. immigration, which is physically in Canada. They just follow them within the airport. It's like shooting fish in a barrel! :(

Bruce

Just like about every IRS regulation. It's just not our country anymore.

Travel to Cuba
 

Its very strange to me that travel to cuba is subject to so many US restrictions but travel to North Korea is ok.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforce...cii/nkorea.txt

It's a good trip - check out http://www.koryogroup.com

I was in EYW in 2001 on a dive trip. The captain of the boat detailed for us just how easy it is to make the trip to Cuba by sea and get away with it. You basically stock up on groceries before you leave so you can claim that you didn't spend money on food and pack enough gas to not need to buy while there. Doesn't make it legit, but it certainly is easier.

I did not vote for Obama, but I would applaud him vociferously if he lifted the arcane and insidious travel, er "spending" ban, re: Cuba.

So wouldn't it work if you payed them in Canadian $ or Euro? Your not spending hard US currency which seems to be what they don't like.

My understanding is that the issue isn't what kind of currency you spend but, rather, "trading with the enemy." You could use yen, and it wouldn't get around the ban.

Bruce

They also photograph people on arriving flights from Cuba. I know someone who spent two days in Canada before returning to U.S after being in Cuba and they pulled him out of line and questioned him and showed him a photo of him arriving from Cuba....

Do yourself a favor and layover for a day in Mexico. Staying 24 hours reduces the chances the authorities in your transit country will send passenger manifests for incoming flights to the US. Mexico is just more lax as well.

http://www.visitlatam.com/latin-amer...us-safely.html

They don't need to follow you around a Canadian airport, as they have the full manifest long before you land. All they need to do is put names to faces.

Going through Mexico is one way to get to Cuba, but Costa Rica, El Salvador, any country is good. Just make sure the flights are separate, as far as laying over a day, that's not important. Fly American or whatever round trip to El Salvador, then TACA round trip from there to Havana. Don't use credit cards while there and your chances of getting "caught" are slim to none.

Travel to Cuba is a violation of OFAC unless you have specific permission. It used to be a $100 fine if we discovered your travel to Cuba upon entry into the U.S. There was a questionaire as well.

o CUBA-RELATED TRAVEL TRANSACTIONS - Only persons whose travel transactions fall
into the categories discussed below may be authorized to spend money related to
travel to, from, or within Cuba.

http://www.treas.gov/offices/enforce...ascii/cuba.txt

How to keep a dictatorship in power in one easy lesson...

Santo Domingo's a good bet, if you don't mind flying Cubana

Viva Fidel! :)

Generally, it's easier to go through Cancun or MEX since there are more flights and it's easier to match up to your eventual US destination. But these def will work as well.

OK, here's a different scenario that I don't think anyone has brought up.

What if you hold dual-citizenship?

Can US authorities still bust you even though you traveled to big bad Cuba on a non-US passport?

Yes, they can. No doubt about it. Dual citizenship does not provide any sort of pass with respect to your obligations as a U.S. national (citizen or resident alien).

Bruce

Here's an interesting "what-if": Suppose John Smith is a dual-citizen of an EU nation (jus sanguinis) and the US (jus soli) (and say his permanent residence is in the EU, but he does own a vacation home in Colorado - he likes to ski, but has an aversion to Switzerland :) ). Mr. Smith is a management consultant, and the majority of his income is earned in the EU. He's paid in euros, and his primary bank is EU-based. Mr. Smith, being a well-off globe-trotting sort of guy, has a US-based bank account as well (which he uses to pay the mortgage on his vacation home) - it's mostly funded by his EU work, but he does periodically consult with US-based folks who pay him in $, and he puts his US-earned income in this account.

Is he in violation of the policies if he flies from the EU to Havana, spends his euros, flies back to the EU, then comes to the US a few weeks later?