Just to satisfy my curiosty, how much did the tooth fairy leave under your pillow this morning? :rolleyes:

Welcome to FlyerTalk SUSPENDED!

Where do you live so I can avoid ever going there on a mileage run. :eek:

and the official tsa response is......:rolleyes:
http://www.tsa.dhs.gov/press/happeni...ident_dca.shtm

"During the course of a carry-on bag search the woman became disruptive."

By whose definition?

A rhetorical question to which I already know the answer.

I'd really like to see fully exposed the "other side" of this story to quell my own queasiness after watching that video.

I'd like to be, er, reassured. :confused:

Unfortunately, police are human beings like every one else and make mistakes. The video certainly did not show anything that would indicate a good reason for arrest but then we were not there.

A few weeks ago at a Cubs game we were down behind home plate and the umpire called a strike on the opposing team batter. A guy from the opposing team was sitting in our section. None of us saw a strike. Neither did the Cubs fan next to him and the Cubs fan said "I saw that and it was not a strike. The umpire obviously has a better view but it was not a strike." Watching Tivo the next day (looking for us in the stands which for once we made it on tv) it was clearly a strike. The umpire was right and we in the stands were wrong.

Until we get more info on this situation it is hard to tell who was right or wrong in this situation. Obviously there is more to the story because I haven't seen anyone arrested at a check point yet so this is not a common problem.

^ Nice analogy!

A TSA agent is not a "judge, magistrate, justice, juror, attorney for the Commonwealth, witness or any law-enforcement officer". At least charge her with something that's more plausible, like battery for hitting the woman in the chair. :rolleyes:

True, nobody is perfect. However, mistakes are a bigger problem when your job involves taking away people's liberties and carrying deadly weapons. Wrongly arrest someone and they spend time in jail, incur large financial costs, etc. even if they are found not guilty. The mistake cannot be undone.

I think it's perfectly reasonable to make a big deal about such errors.

I do not see a mistake from the video. If she was told to move away from her bags to conduct secondary screening, and she refused TSA requests and LEO requests, she will physically be moved. If she resists to be moved, then she will likely be arrested. How hard is it to walk to the secondary screening area? I think she became loud and argumentative, all the while refusing to leave her bags alone and go the appropriate area to get screened by TSA. That is why LEOs put their hands on her. Once she tenses up and does not comply, that is usually all it takes to physically put her in cuffs. I do not like to Monday morning QB the LEOs on scene without actually being there, but I think since there were three officers they could have possibly got her hands behind her back without going to the ground, but I still do not think they erred in their actions. The LEOs are not going to wait for her to start swingin.

All of you have been flying enough to know that if you are chosen for secondary screening you are not allowed to touch your belongings until the secondary is complete. All of you also know that TSOs are supposed to bring the belongings to you so that they are kept in sight at all times. I would definitely get mad if they left my stuff on the belt, but from the video, I don't think this occurred. I think she went straight to her stuff, ignoring the repeated requests by TSO and ultimately LEOs. This is what got her in trouble. Again, from working in an airport and looking at it from a law enforcement perspective, this is my assumption of what occurred without the full video and/or facts of the incident. She did not leave her stuff alone, she did not follow repeated requests, she would not put her hands behind her back, so it got unnecessarily had to get physical. I think she will lose the lawsuit if it even makes it to civil court. Considering that the suit is for millions, I think she is looking to retire early on the government's payroll. It's not going to happen.

Yet I still can't help touching my stuff (that doesn't sound right :D). The TSO will ask about something and I'll instinctively reach for it. I've done it a bunch of times. During a back check two days ago I reached into my bag after being told not to do that. About 10 seconds after again being reminded not to do it, I did it again. Was I being disruptive? In my mind I was trying to be helpful, yet I could easily imagine that some TSO could interpret my actions as hostile and uncooperative.

At what point does it become allowable and/or necessary to use the level of force seen in the video? Would my actions two days ago have justified throwing me to the ground and smashing me against a table? What if a LEO had told me to turn around and walk away, and, wanting to exercise my right to watch my stuff, I refused? Would that be grounds for the treatment the woman in the video received?

Many people, especially the law-abiding type, are not used to being denied access to their own possessions. Most people who have never been arrested would probably "tense-up" if LEOs were called to separate you from your personal possessions. How can anyone expect anything other than a hostile (non-violent) attitude?

I've done the same thing during SSSS. Not due to any intent to "resist", but because it's my stuff, I'm not used to being told I can't touch my own bag. And when someone asks where something is (eg: cellphone), it's instinctual to reach for it rather than say where it is.

Exactly; I automatically reach in to be helpful before I consciously stop myself. It's what a polite person would do in most similar situations.

All it would take is one TSO having a bad day to call a LEO and tell him/her I was impeding the screening process. I would become very nervous and defensive. Instead of immediately obeying the LEOs order to leave, I might try to explain the situation (i.e. argue, obstruct the TSO & LEO, fail to obey a lawful order).

The idea that such a series of events is plausible scares me, as I could see myself reacting in that way. Can the TSOs and/or LEOs here tell me if this is a realistic situation?

Note that I'm not saying that the original case in question went down like this.

I must say that for one being so critical of the police behavior, you show remarkable naivety on how to behave when dealing with them. In general, when confronted with an uninvited police or security presence, the assumption to be made is that they are not your friend.

Respect, Good. Helpfully invading their space. Bad.

Taking control of the situation works if you know the rules of the game. If not, say nothing, follow orders, and press charges later if you feel you were wronged. You may win $10 million dollars, but probably not.

I understand that; I'm not that stupid. However, I have never had the chance to interact with a police officer in a confrontational situation without having time to collect my thoughts (being stopped for speeding over a decade ago is about as close as I've gotten).

Normally when dealing with authority figures I would try to calmly and politely explain the situation. A polite failure to immediately comply most people's orders during an otherwise peaceful argument with a sober upstanding citizen is not usually cause for the use of physical force.

Except in this situation I'd be standing still and multiple people would enter the space around me. I've invaded their space without doing anything.

There is a difference between someone instinctively reaching into their bag, and a person actually interfering with the process. People will reach into their bag and say "I know what your looking for" and start digging. They will be told to not touch their items please. Usually that person says "Oh, I am sorry. But my curling iron is in that pocket. (It is never the curling iron that we are looking for, but whatever).Someone interfering will ignore the requests to keep their hands out of their bags, they will not step back when requested, and they try many times to get their hands in their bags. Huffing and Puffing the whole time, making it impossible to do the bag check. You can tell the difference between the ones trying to be helpful, and the ones trying to be a PITA.