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-   -   "The passenger was interfering with the screening process..." -video at 11 (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/843538-passenger-interfering-screening-process-video-11-a.html)

Fredd Jul 10, 2008 8:46 am

"The passenger was interfering with the screening process..." -video at 11
 
Obviously a major mistake in the headline is that the "tussle" was not with TSA personnel but with airport police at a TSA checkpoint but it still makes, er, interesting viewing. While the video may not "tell the whole story," I certainly couldn't see anything the woman was doing to justify the reaction:

Tussle between TSA and passenger caught on camera, now the focus of a lawsuit

A New York woman has filed a $10 million lawsuit stemming from her arrest at Washington's Reagan International Airport last year, an arrest she says was unwarranted and abusive.

Police say 31-year-old Robin Kassner was obstructing justice.

Security cameras captured the incident and the video has now been made public.

Surveillance video from inside Reagan National Airport shows Robin Kassner standing with a TSA agent who sorts through her bag.

Moments later, a Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority police officer steps in and pulls Kassner to the ground.


http://tinyurl.com/5t5lnv

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 8:52 am

I not only hope she wins her lawsuit but that the police and TSA employees responsible for her abuse have to pay up out of their own pockets. The police belong in prison for their disgusting actions too. :mad:

flyinbob Jul 10, 2008 9:07 am

"Obstruction of Justice". "Disturbing the peace". Those seem to be catch-all charges thrown out by police when they don't have legitimate charges to file, but without audio it is hard to say if something more happened.

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 9:23 am


Originally Posted by flyinbob (Post 10012170)
"Obstruction of Justice". "Disturbing the peace". Those seem to be catch-all charges thrown out by police when they don't have legitimate charges to file, but without audio it is hard to say if something more happened.

Even if she told the TSA employee to go take a flying ____, that is no excuse for the disgusting treatment she received.

NorcrossFlyer Jul 10, 2008 9:32 am


Originally Posted by flyinbob (Post 10012170)
"Obstruction of Justice". "Disturbing the peace". Those seem to be catch-all charges thrown out by police when they don't have legitimate charges to file, but without audio it is hard to say if something more happened.

There certainly could be more to the story. But nothing I saw in the video justified the cop's attack on her. He probably just got tired of listening to her so he took it upon himself to shut her up. Not exactly legal.

Furthermore............I didn't see anything in the video that I wouldn't have done myself. There is no way in hell I would let a TSA goon paw through my things without me keeping a close eye on him/her. I've been searched before and the TSO never had an issue with me standing right nearby.

BigBen1861 Jul 10, 2008 9:32 am

She claims that there was no argument first? That this came out of nowhere? Come on. You don't have 3 TSA agents throw you around like that unless there was something unusual going on. Clearly the tape doesn't tell the whole story, but I'm not buying her side that I see on the tape.

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 9:41 am


Originally Posted by BigBen1861 (Post 10012322)
She claims that there was no argument first? That this came out of nowhere? Come on. You don't have 3 TSA agents throw you around like that unless there was something unusual going on. Clearly the tape doesn't tell the whole story, but I'm not buying her side that I see on the tape.

Those were police officers. If the TSA had thrown her around, she'd already be a very wealthy woman. TSA has no powers of arrest and certainly no ability to physically abuse someone.

I don't care if she did argue. Words are no excuse for what happened to her.

studentff Jul 10, 2008 9:50 am


Originally Posted by BigBen1861 (Post 10012322)
Clearly the tape doesn't tell the whole story, but I'm not buying her side that I see on the tape.

I don't see interference with screening, but I do see a LEO (wrongly IMO) trying to distract the woman from monitoring the search of her bag. Nothing the woman was doing seemed to indicate she was being combative or causing interference with the screening. Something was going on though for the LEO to be standing there. The woman would sound better in the interview if she would just state the reason TSA was agitated and the LEO was present; in all likelihood the reason would just make TSA look worse anyway.

If I had to make a wild guess (which without audio the video can neither substantiate or refute), the LEO was upset that the woman was watching her property rather than "repecting the LEO's authoritah :rolleyes: " and so initiated the takedown and arrest.

IMO TSA's "non-physical interference with screening" "offense" is merely a trumped up charge to be used by power-tripping screeners and supervisors. If it's non physical, it's not interference. If someone is screaming/cussing at the top of their lungs, it's not interference, though it may be disorderly conduct worthy of a LEO call. (Actual disorderly conduct, unlike the trumped-up disorderly conducts so often used by power-tripping LEOs).

This case is yet another reason why even law-abiding citizens can never trust law enforcement in any encounter. Even if 99% of LEOs are good 95% of the time, the risk is still too great. If LEOs want respect and not just fear from the law-abiding public, they should understand that videos like this are ten steps backwards when positive stories are only one step forward.

GothJenny Jul 10, 2008 9:52 am

Maybe she was dressed too nicely? She should dress like a Goth - people always keep their distance.

studentff Jul 10, 2008 9:54 am

Does this happen more at DCA than elsewhere?
 
Ever notice that there seem to be more stories of apparent screener/LEO abuse of pax at DCA than elsewhere?

Wasn't it just last year that a mother traveling with a toddler wasn't allowed to carry the kid's sippy cup, "spilled" the contents on the floor as she was being escorted from the checkpoint, and was forced by the TSA/LEOs under threat of arrest to get down on her knees and scrub the floor while her child was left unattended (even though the woman's non-traveling SO was in sight and she easily asked to call him over to assist.)?

FliesWay2Much Jul 10, 2008 10:01 am

I was just going to speculate how long it would be before the TSA bloggers tried to defend the indefensible. But, I was too late. Blogger Bob has already posted on the KARE website!


Good afternoon. I just wanted to point out that the headline of this article is incorrect. The tussle was between the passenger and the Airport Police, not the TSA. Our officers are only allowed to use physical force in self defense.

Thanks,

Bob

TSA Eos Blog Team
Let's see -- Blogger Bob posted at 1128 EDT and the thread first appeared here at 1046 EDT. I'd say Blogger Bob takes a peek at FT every once in a while.

So, I guess I will ask him directly: "Bob, how long before you defend the indefensible on the blog site?"

markwtaylor Jul 10, 2008 10:08 am


Originally Posted by studentff (Post 10012438)
Ever notice that there seem to be more stories of apparent screener/LEO abuse of pax at DCA than elsewhere?

Wasn't it just last year that a mother traveling with a toddler wasn't allowed to carry the kid's sippy cup, "spilled" the contents on the floor as she was being escorted from the checkpoint, and was forced by the TSA/LEOs under threat of arrest to get down on her knees and scrub the floor while her child was left unattended (even though the woman's non-traveling SO was in sight and she easily asked to call him over to assist.)?

Yep, because people in DC are politician wannabes and idiots. Our Nation's Capital is in desperate need of a deep cleansing.

Wally Bird Jul 10, 2008 10:10 am

We discussed this in a huge thread at the time, although I can't seem to find it now.

It boiled down to the usual polarization - "she asked for it" vs. "facist police".

You Go Girl, hope you collect mucho $$$ ^

Global_Hi_Flyer Jul 10, 2008 10:14 am


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 10012367)
I don't care if she did argue. Words are no excuse for what happened to her.

Agree. Total disregard for her rights.


Originally Posted by FliesWay2Much (Post 10012461)
I was just going to speculate how long it would be before the TSA bloggers tried to defend the indefensible. But, I was too late. Blogger Bob has already posted on the KARE website!



Let's see -- Blogger Bob posted at 1128 EDT and the thread first appeared here at 1046 EDT. I'd say Blogger Bob takes a peek at FT every once in a while.

So, I guess I will ask him directly: "Bob, how long before you defend the indefensible on the blog site?"

What Blogger Boob failed to mention is that the cop was likely called by the TSA. Meaning that TSA had some responsibility for this.

moeve Jul 10, 2008 10:23 am

WHAT in the world would warrent THAT kind of reaction in this situation!?! Good lord I do hope she get its her damages. Do some of you remember me saying that you people should be more afraid of what you have in power these day than most threats from the outside - well ladies and gentleman - THIS is exactly what I mean't. No big Ts then you are going to be the target eventually. :shaking head in disgust:

Fredd Jul 10, 2008 10:34 am

Too many cosmetics in her carry-on?

Grabbing her from behind and throwing her to the floor to prevent her from using her lip gloss on somebody?

I learned long ago in my previous life that there are two sides to almost every story; the LEO side would have to be a doozie to convince any jury I was on.

We Will Never Forget Jul 10, 2008 10:41 am

She's going to get paid, but I highly doubt her honesty.

She stated that there was no provocation, no argument and agreed that it "seemed to come from nowhere".

Really, the police were called even though there was no disagreement? :rolleyes:

NorcrossFlyer Jul 10, 2008 11:08 am


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10012672)
She's going to get paid, but I highly doubt her honesty.

She stated that there was no provocation, no argument and agreed that it "seemed to come from nowhere".

Really, the police were called even though there was no disagreement? :rolleyes:

A disagreement doesn't give the cops the justification to beat the crap out of you.

She could have been acting like a complete beeeotch and it still would not have justified the cops actions.

sbrower Jul 10, 2008 11:09 am

A few legal corrections.

1. The fact that the TSA "called the LEO's" will generally *not* result in any liability for the TSA. That is, in general, "calling" a LEO is a privileged action. (I have not taken the time to dig out the cases on the extent of the privilege -there are exceptions for provision of false information, but even those are pretty tough to meet, because it is the responsibility of the LEO to determine accurate information before proceeding).

2. Spiff, your comment about the arrest powers of TSA are, I believe, not accurate. TSA employess, as non-LEO private citizens, *can* effect an arrest and they *can* use reasonable force to do so (i.e. - they have the same rights you do as a non-LEO). HOWEVER, it is my understanding that TSA policy prohibits their employees from excercising those rights, except in the case of self-defense.

As an example, I found the following quote (taken from an article on the subject):

District of Columbia Law 23- 582(b) reads as follows:

(b) A private person may arrest another -

(1) who he has probable cause to believe is committing in his presence -

(A) a felony, or

(B) an offense enumerated in section 23-581 (a)(2); or

(2) in aid of a law enforcement officer or special policeman, or other person authorized by law to make an arrest.

(c) Any person making an arrest pursuant to this section shall deliver the person arrested to a law enforcement officer without unreasonable delay. (July 29, 1970, 84 Stat. 630, Pub. L. 91-358, Title II, § 210(a); 1973 Ed., § 23-582; Apr. 30, 1988, D.C. Law 7-104, § 7(e), 35 DCR 147.)

NOTE: Unlike a LEO, a private citizen probably does *not* have a right to make a "good faith" mistake. A private citizen usually must be *correct* that they witnessed a felony. But, if they did, they can use reasonable force to detain the individual and to deliver them to a LEO. [FOOTNOTE: This is commentary from a lawyer, but it is NOT legal advice. Don't forcibly arrest anyone until you talk to your own attorney and confirm the current law in your own jurisdiction.]

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 11:15 am


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10012672)
She's going to get paid, but I highly doubt her honesty.

She stated that there was no provocation, no argument and agreed that it "seemed to come from nowhere".

Really, the police were called even though there was no disagreement? :rolleyes:

Just because there's a disagreement is no reason to call the police.

Even if she cussed out the police and/or the TSA employee, there is no excuse for the physical abuse she received.

Wally Bird Jul 10, 2008 11:21 am


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10012672)
She's going to get paid, but I highly doubt her honesty.

She stated that there was no provocation, no argument and agreed that it "seemed to come from nowhere".

Really, the police were called even though there was no disagreement? :rolleyes:

IIRC the original story alleged she was intoxicated, but did not state the degree of intoxication. Doesn't seem to me to be a rolling drunk on the video, but likely mouthed off a bit to the screener.

Not worthy of a trip to the floor, a face plant and incarceration IMO.

"Interfering". Yeah, whatever :rolleyes:

MarcPHL Jul 10, 2008 11:22 am

But what about this Day and Age©™? What about the children? I mean come on for crying out loud...Remember the Maine!

We Will Never Forget Jul 10, 2008 11:30 am

For all that commented:

Please read the post. I did not say I condoned the actions, I simply questioned the intergrity of her statements.

Fredd Jul 10, 2008 11:34 am


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10012987)
For all that commented:

Please read the post. I did not say I condoned the actions, I simply questioned the intergrity of her statements.

Fair enough IMO. As I mentioned up-thread, I learned long ago in my previous life that there are two sides to almost every story; the LEO side would have to be a doozie to convince any jury I was on.

We Will Never Forget Jul 10, 2008 11:37 am


Originally Posted by Fredd (Post 10013016)
Fair enough IMO. As I mentioned up-thread, I learned long ago in my previous life that there are two sides to almost every story; the LEO side would have to be a doozie to convince any jury I was on.

I agree.

You want to go where? Jul 10, 2008 12:09 pm


Originally Posted by sbrower (Post 10012858)
District of Columbia Law 23- 582(b) reads as follows:

Just a reminder that DCA is in the Commonwealth of Virginia, so I presume that it is their law which would apply, rather than DC law.

sbrower Jul 10, 2008 12:32 pm


Originally Posted by You want to go where? (Post 10013254)
Just a reminder that DCA is in the Commonwealth of Virginia, so I presume that it is their law which would apply, rather than DC law.

You are correct, but I wasn't even thinking about the location of the airport. The article I was reading just happened to have that statute. According to the aritlce, every state in the U.S., except North Carolina, has a statute authorizing citizen's arrest. And North Carolina apparently also allows it as a matter of common law.

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 12:41 pm


Originally Posted by sbrower (Post 10013380)
You are correct, but I wasn't even thinking about the location of the airport. The article I was reading just happened to have that statute. According to the aritlce, every state in the U.S., except North Carolina, has a statute authorizing citizen's arrest. And North Carolina apparently also allows it as a matter of common law.

What says the law regarding "resisting arrest" of a so-called "citizen's arrest? ;)

phedre Jul 10, 2008 12:56 pm


Originally Posted by GothJenny (Post 10012429)
Maybe she was dressed too nicely? She should dress like a Goth - people always keep their distance.

Now there's an interesting strategy. I think I'll "forget" to shower for the next four days before my flight on Monday :D

mdusry Jul 10, 2008 1:08 pm

Amen, Brother!!!
 

Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 10012084)
I not only hope she wins her lawsuit but that the police and TSA employees responsible for her abuse have to pay up out of their own pockets. The police belong in prison for their disgusting actions too. :mad:

Ditto & double-ditto. The "policeman" Urbino is clearly a psychotic, Nazi thug and should be in a mental institution after being sent to prison. Interesting that so far I have not heard either presidential canditate or any senatorial candidate address the horrific brutality and sheer stupidity Americans suffer on every trip we take.:mad:

TheRoadie Jul 10, 2008 1:26 pm

She could have read about the new 3-1-1 rules here on FT was was explaining her "extraordinary and compelling" reason to keep her non-explosive liquids. :eek:

Wally Bird Jul 10, 2008 1:32 pm

Found the original thread, it got demoted to OMNI: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=785210

Global_Hi_Flyer Jul 10, 2008 1:36 pm

Some of the comments here (link) make you wonder about people.

PhlyingRPh Jul 10, 2008 1:53 pm

Even if she had been uncooperative prior to the point at which the video footage begins, so what? Her alleged prior level of cooperation means nothing and a failure of people to understnad this is truly disturbing.

This 5'4", early thirties, small framed 110 lb blonde woman was clearly not posing the type of threat that required the pig to wrestle her to the ground, attempt to suffocate her and god knows what else he was trying to do to her. Bullies like that pig have no place in a civilized police force.

We Will Never Forget Jul 10, 2008 2:33 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 10013740)
Some of the comments here (link) make you wonder about people.

Some of them were hilarious.

MrAndy1369 Jul 10, 2008 2:38 pm

Good lord. The video is distrubing as hell.

NOTHING she did on video warranted this. Even mouthing off the cop doesn't warrant this.

Now if we don't cooperate with screening fully - will this happen? *rolls eyes*

Spiff Jul 10, 2008 2:38 pm


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10014134)
Some of them were hilarious.

And some of them clearly indicate that lead paint is still in widespread use, and is bubble-gum flavored in some households.

We Will Never Forget Jul 10, 2008 2:41 pm


Originally Posted by Spiff (Post 10014175)
And some of them clearly indicate that lead paint is still in widespread use, and is bubble-gum flavored in some households.

Personally, I think most of these incidents are simply two groups of idiots that constantly look for each other.

Ari Jul 10, 2008 3:03 pm


Originally Posted by We Will Never Forget (Post 10014193)
Personally, I think most of these incidents are simply two groups of idiots that constantly look for each other.

Right you may be-- but the problem is, the police force isn't supposed to be a group of idiots.

stupidhead Jul 10, 2008 3:43 pm


Originally Posted by PhlyingRPh (Post 10013848)
Even if she had been uncooperative prior to the point at which the video footage begins, so what? Her alleged prior level of cooperation means nothing and a failure of people to understnad this is truly disturbing.

This 5'4", early thirties, small framed 110 lb blonde woman was clearly not posing the type of threat that required the pig to wrestle her to the ground, attempt to suffocate her and god knows what else he was trying to do to her. Bullies like that pig have no place in a civilized police force.

Bullies like that pig have no place in a civilized SOCIETY. He should be castrated, have is privates glued back, castrated again, have his privates glued again, hanged upside down by his privates, sent to federal pound me in the ... prison for 20 years where he can get his butt kicked, and then deported to North Korea where he can spend the rest of his life being a lab rat. Or caned until his butt separates from his body.

The fact that this pig did that to a woman makes it 100 times worse. Someone who assaults another person is subhuman, but someone who abuses the public's trust to assault a vulnerable individual deserves to be beheaded in public.


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