Sizer templates coming back?
 

Scott McCartney thinks it might happen

As if TSA and the process isn't bad enough now. I remember (and despised) those templates for a lot of reasons - including the fact that they caused a real problem with legitimate-sized carryons and the nazi-like enforcement by some of the screeners. I can see why the airlines would like to outsource enforcement to the TSA (because the passengers see TSA as having more 'authoritay' especially with a badge) just like they have with revenue protection.

It won't happen, except at airports where a particular airline is the only airline served from that checkpoint.

Last time up, Continental sued United to have their templates removed from airports where they shared checkpoints.

It will only take one customer-focused airline (like CO, VX, B6) to scuttle this.

I recall having to bend one up until it almost broke off in order to get my bag through the x-ray at EWR back during the late 90s. My bag was fine for the CO flight I was on, but not for UA who was sharing that concourse at the time - the x-ray operator tried to insist I comply with UA's restrictions, but I just manhandled the template until my bag went through.

They might start sizing them at the gate and enforce the 2 bag rule. Those sizing templates are available at all the gates as relics from a previous era.

I have seen some women bring 4 bags with them on board and guess what - they all end up in the overhead bin :rolleyes:

I have seen men do this as well. These guys typically refuse to use the space under the seat in front of them because there "isn't enough room!" :mad:

Let's see, we're going to charge people for the first bag, then we're going to put the templates back on the x-ray machine. So, everybody trying to save $15 bucks is going to carry on their bag, and the security show will be longer. I think I'll start checking my bag (exempt per UA policy). Anybody else think they'll change their checked bag routine?

If more idiots insist on bringing the kitchen sink as carry on instead of checking it and as soon as the Airlines discover that their turnover expectations are not being met because instead of checking thier bags and PAYING for them pax are bringing more carry on - guess what - they are going to inforce the size of carry on again. That may happen faster if we see an increase of accidents with overhead storage or if we see fights for overhead space.

Seeing just how stupid and selfcentered many folks are that will probably be sooner than later.

Nope.

But it WILL slow things down. As it is now, I put both my computer bag and the gray bins in sideways to take up less space and speed the process. With the sizer, you can't do that. So it WILL take longer - and it WILL annoy the TSA as I won't proceed through the WTMD until I see the last of my stuff go into the x-ray tube.

Man, if they do this, I hope it's in conjunction with the Expert/Casual/Family lane division thing. I don't want a Tumi in the back of the head because our stroller won't go through the template when we're leaving on vacation. Thank jah we're beyond flying with a car seat.

And yeah, as is said above, when on business, I take up 2-4 bins depending on weather and the equipment I have with me. Having to put them end-to-end is going to be a hassle. Mostly for eveyone behind me.

I am sure some US airlines will try to crack the whip with regard to carry on baggage, but I am not so sure that airlines have the staffing levels to consistently enforce whatever restrictions a given airline may say it has -- perhaps that is a large part of the reason why the no-free-bags airlines may want the TSA to do the airline's bidding with regard to carry-on items.

I hope the TSA stays away from this matter .... and I also hope that the airlines (and others) wise up about how inviting the TSA into the process is like hand-feeding a rabid wolf in hope that it won't bite you too.

Other people, such as men, have been seen doing this as well. ;)

Not trying to be sexist or something :), but its women who I have noticed carrying: a handbag, a roller computer bag, a rollerboard that is too heavy to lift up and place in the overhead bin, a paper shopping bag with magazines or knick knacks. I am tired of unbuckling my seatbelt and getting off my seat to lift up someone else's rollerboard to the overhead bin. If you cannot lift it yourself then check it in.

For folks who have a rollerboard for their laptop, has it ever fit the seat in front of you? Or has it always been stuffed into an overhead compartment? :confused:

Quite true. I am sure they will strike a deal with the Feds, where TSA takes care of the bags and the airlines would do the fingerprinting of the passengers. Can you imagine the case, where one has to provide 10 fingerprints before checking in for an international flight. If the machine does not pick your prints or does not like you:eek:; stand in the queue to be fingerprinted by the one agent manning 200 kiosks and 10 international flights. :rolleyes:

I'm thinking that stopping the madness of carry-ons at the screening facility will help to expedite the boarding process.

And slow down the screening process, making the airport experience worse.

Frankly, I don't think it will expedite boarding at all because aircraft don't have space for all the passengers to bring the current permitted limits.... and because the more cramped planes get as load factors go up, the more early boarders will store both items in the overhead.

I can see fights over what constitutes a "personal item".

..... just like the "war on liquids" restrictions and requirements was supposed to speed up things too. :rolleyes:

Well, if the airlines stopped losing/misdirecting baggage at the rate they do, or expedited the delivery process to the baggage carousel on arrival, or helped reduce the pilferage from checked luggage, that may reduce the madness at all phases of the trip. Oh, wait, that wasn't the madness you were referring to? :confused:

Aside: Funny how there's always enough room for crew bags on board, when in actuality crew can, if necessary, go around "behind the wing" :eek: and retrieve their bags from the hold. I've never actually seen this done, must be a FAR or Faux TSA reg. preventing it?

Crew members would require a badge with ramp access to be able to walk around the airplane on the ground. More like an airport authority regulation. If you have ever noticed, some employees have different color badges than others.

Wirelessly posted (bb: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows NT 5.0) BlackBerry8310/4.2.2 Profile/MIDP-2.0 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

I do expect we might see the sizers back. Carryon is likely to get out of control with the high load factors and the checked bag fees. I think that's the first thing they will try to do to alleviate the problem.

The Feds are getting in on the act. The TSA wants to expand its powers... check out the Securing Cabin Baggage Act. It calls for TSA enforcement of carry-on size, including the use of sizing templates at the X-ray machine. I don't mind enforcement of the limits, but that is NOT "transportation security" and therefore not within the purview of the TSA. Besides, the TSA couldn't manage a bathroom.

great :rolleyes: give more mission creep to the tsa :td: :mad:. lipinski must have been denied overhead space on a flight and is a putz. there's also another thread over here: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-bag-size.html

When airlines stop losing so many checked bags, I will start checking bags instead of carrying them onto airliners.

Folks, I can honestly say that this is something I hope never comes to pass. We get enough grief with the liquids ban and other policies we are required to enforce, not to mention that there will be the inevitable exceptions to the rule (Strollers come to mind) that are going to require hand screening.

If the airlines want this, they can use the bag sizer’s (sp) that each one has right next to the ticket counters. We have all seen them, the “If your bag does not fit in here you cant take it onboard” chrome tube steel contraptions. Congress is going to do what they like, after all the TSA is a government agency, but I hope they put this back on the airlines and not on the checkpoint.

aww you want some limburger with that? You all get what you deserve because the idiots above you have decided to chase the 1 in centillion chance/risks without use of any common sense other then knee jerk reactions and restrict items based on fantasy science that isnt backed by reality or peer-reviewed science.

TSA could stop alot of the grief they get by stopping thegate rapes, ID BS, War on Watah, boot the foot wear fetishist to the curb, along with the other BS items put in place since 9/10/01 cause it hasnt done a dang thing to make us safer. personally next to some of the pork projects coming out of congress TSA is the biggest waste of money, even more so then the war on drugs, for which if the govt was smart they would legalize it and tax(worse then cigs) the heck out of it


Ron please explain this to me. Why is my Benchmade Stryker 915 tanto drop blade folder is a risk, but yet my trauma sheers(which can cut through human bone and quarters) or surgical scapel sharp fiskar scissors(that i can remove the screw and have not one but two daggers) are allowed.

that congress twit is gonna get a note, and just like the poster in the other thread im gonna insinuate hes corrupt and bought off for making those comments

*****

Except that people who check-in online and don't check in bags never go to the desk. The go right through security to the gate.

The restrictions are moronic. Under that proposal, most poster tubes would be banned. for being too long.

Please, folks -- help to stop this nonsense before it starts. WRITE YOUR REPRESENTATIVE!

Then the airlines have a choice:
- staff the security entry points with their own people to check carry on sizes

- check bag sizes at the gate

- both of the above.

RyanAir's CEO is actually proposing something that makes sense (for a change): get rid of bag check in at the land side check in counter. Make pax drag their bags to gate where they will be gate checked if they don't fit in the overhead. Now this might not make sense for some airlines, but for an LCC trying to same money it makes perfect sense. Which is why WN's carry on sizes are higher than the competition's: they'd rather not check bags.

We've yet to see the miraculous recovery in the airline industry from checked bagged fees. What we are seeing instead is that the pax are winning the game of chicken: they've stopped checking bags due to the fees, and the GA, under pressure to record an on time departure, is proactively waiving fees for those who will agree to gate check before boarding. This proposed bill is nothing less than a desperate attempt by UA (it's a IL congressman sponsoring the bill) to save its bag fee business that AC has already had the good sense to rid of.

The TSA's mission is to prevent things that can hurt planes and pax from getting on the plane, period. The fact that their primary mission is now to protect the revenue of the airlines and air side merchants is not an excuse to add a third wrong.

I see men do the same.

On another topic, lately I've been checking my bag, which legally works as a roll-a-board carry-on, and I've been coughing up the $15 to do so when necessary, depending on the airline and status.

My typical carry-on these days is a back-pack made for laptop/electronic gear and a second, smaller item for camera gear.

I almost always place the backpack and camera gear under the seat in front of me. It takes up most of the room, but it fits -- As they're smaller items, it is proper etiquette to place such items there (despite the fact few pax bother to do this).

Note: the few times I have placed them in bins, other pax will just pull my pack out and re-pack it, with no care for the contents -- a second, even more important reason it goes under the seat in front of me.

Maybe its time to combine my camera gear into the laptop/electronics bag and start taking the roll-a-board again. Going 100% carry-on has its benefits, but after the few last episodes of playing monopoly at ATL (you've rolled a 7 - proceed from A25 to center-point, take tram to T concourse; new gate is T8) -- Arrive at T8 and see: Flight Delayed! -- Then, New Gate: B08.

Why bother rolling it around when it can be checked.

Gotta love Hartsfield & The Orchard when wx starts playing games. ;)

I sat with a friend a few weeks ago who owns a company that makes trays, bins, and storage containers for the food and travel industries. He was about to head to a meeting in Texas to bid on baggage bins to measure carry on luggage that were 2" smaller than the current bins.

hey ron-guess what....we agree on something ;). but seriously-you are absolutely 100% correct. but this is an airline and/or faa issue. if the airlines and/or faa say it's xxx size then that's it-you folks should not have to deal with ma and pa kettle trying to bring a steamer trunk on board as a carry-on item

agreed as i mentioned above tho it's not a red/blue issue as where kapinski happens to be blue, it could just as easily be a "red guy/gal" who could not get any overhead space the next time, right? ;)

Frankly, I wouldn't mind this. Some 22" bags just won't go in the overhead wheels first. Then these bags end up taking up the space that two or three wheels-first bags would. It seems like lowering the carryon size to 20" would solve a lot of the problems they have now with being forced to gate check some people's legitimately sized carry-ons simply because there isn't enough space.

Personally, I think the airlines need to grow a pair and enforce the rules they already have in place. I'm sure they'd love to see the TSA do the job for them so they don't get yelled at by their customer base, but if they set the limits, they need to enforce them.

My most recent favorite was the guy who had a 22" roll aboard and had then slung a 18" or 19" duffle bag over his shoulder. Just because you can sling a bag over your shoulder doesn't make it a "personal item."

Maybe I misunderstand the proposal, but wouldn't that mean taking all bags through security screening, including ones you intend to check? Wouldn't the screeners have to search that many more (and larger) bags? What happens to the evil liquids and Swiss Army knives in the (not yet) checked bags? :confused:

Well, maybe they could lock the cockpit door? That would make the airplanes safer than anything the TSA has ever done.:rolleyes:

Yes it would mean all that. As for screeners searching more bags what's the difference if they search checked bags or carryons ... both types of luggage are getting checked? This way, there would be much less theft.

I haven't checked a bag in over a year, so it wouldn't affect me.

People who have to have their pocket knives would not fly RyanAir.

^ to having both checked bags and carryons screened in front of passengers, but my main question was what happens to things which are currently allowed in checked bags but not carryons - not just liquids but some sporting goods, tools, etc. Maybe RyanAir has a specific enough client base that it doesn't matter, but it's hard to see it becoming a widespread solution.

Because Congress doesn't have its hands full enough with real issues... I mean, they can't even properly legislate curbs to abusive credit card issuers, much less even approach things like the US economy, health care, energy policy, etc., so let's waste taxpayer time on legislating carry-on sizes, investigating steroids in pro sports, and other inanities. :mad:

At first the bill looks almost harmless.. the airlines will have to follow the rules they set.

But it really bothers me that our government has nothing better to do that worry about a carryon maybe being an inch too big.

I fly carryon only, my suitcase fits the size requirements, I can lift it into the bin all by myself, my purse fits under the seat, I play by the liquids rule.. leave me alone!!!!

Isnt the government busy enough selling cars and managing mortgages? Or is this part of the plan to make more jobs? Retrofit all the belts... that will employ people for maybe a whole 2 weeks at each airport!

I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who routinely flies with items prohibited from the cabin that are necessary for work, so I really don't think that's a workable proposal.

If they have to verify carry-on sizes at security, I'd rather they implement the "sizer" bins mentioned above, rather than templates. I, too, travel with a kid at times and don't want a Tumi in the Back of the Head (henceforth TitBotH) because the stroller or car seat won't fit through the template.

And I recall the frustration of the template days, flying Continental with my "international" sized carry-on that wouldn't fit through the United-spec template.

G-Man, they already to have it as a requirement, but no one enforces it. The ticket counter folks don’t want to deal with the inevitable arguing they are going to get from the passengers, and TSA has absolutely (me at least, I cant speak for the suits) no business or wish even attempting to enforce it. What a nightmare it would be! As far as I am concerned, the congress critter behind this can eat my shorts!