Wilbur

Please, please, let their be an Amish traveler subjected to this silly rule in the line of sight for a news crew to film. Please!

Wally Bird

Although the German reference comes most easily to mind, this ubiquitous ID-checking is typical of any oppressive, quasi-totalitarian regime. It is still occurring in many nations, sadly now including the US.

Depending on one's background and experiences, this is either no big deal or the thin end of the wedge. I doubt any amount of debate will move anyone from one camp to the other; until perhaps it's too late. I probably won't be around to see it but I really don't think it's going to stop with just air travel, I'm just ashamed to have been part of the generation that allowed it to happen.

DYW2FT is no longer just a 'threat'. Sad, so sad.

FliesWay2Much

Does this include opening a first-class stamped & sealed envelope? Last I checked, this act by a government official requires probable cause and a search warrant.

I read here that you consider an ID checkpoint to be the same as a traffic stop. You have full authority to "run" somebody's ID (without even reasonable suspicion) to check for outstanding warrants, citizenship, etc.

Lawsuit to follow. I can almost guarantee it.

Cee

I never said anything about opening mail.

Not me, the LEOs.

Wally Bird

Oh they tried that already but the GAO (I think ?) stopped them. This time. I expect them to try again and again until they succeed. Will it still be no big deal then ?

Dovster

That is what I understood from you saying that "I will fight any government requirement that says I must show ID to travel."

To me, that means: You would show up at the airport and if ID is demanded you would refuse to show it, pass up flying, and bring suit against the TSA.

Of course, to you it might just mean you will write a letter to the editor of your local newspaper or complain here on TS&S.

I am interested in knowing what path you will follow in fighting this rule.

xanthuos

It's a slippery slope indeed...

Time for another Gilmore case. The TSA stated before The Supreme Court that a passenger did not have to show ID to fly if they were willing to be subject to a secondary screening. The Supreme Court ruled that as long as there were measures in place for that situation, it was not a constitutional violation. Now that the passenger no longer has a choice, let's see what the courts have to say.

GUWonder

If that is all it means to you then you clearly have much to learn about how the above scenario you lay out won't necessarily be the outcome of not showing government-issued photo ID -- whether refusing to show government-issued photo ID and/or unable to show it -- to the TSA.

There may be a lot of things you are interested in knowing (or not), but don't count on necessarily getting to know it. If that bothers, tough luck, eh?. Why should you care what path or paths are followed in fighting this rule?

FliesWay2Much

Quote #1: But, you did say that SOP requires a search of papers. What happens if you confront a sealed, stamped, addressed envelope? What if, in this no-ID harassment scenario, you x-rayed the envelope as described above and saw the shadow of a plastic credit card-size object?


Quote #2: Where this "don't blame me" argument falls apart is that the cop bases reasonable suspicion (if the thought process gets that far) on a TSA practice that the Supreme Court has already ruled to be valid -- flying without an ID. A cop wouldn't have the authority to run me -- or you -- against any criminal data base without reasonable suspicion or as a result of a traffic stop. They can't even get away with this at DUI roadblocks without some level of reasonable suspicion.

whirledtraveler

I'm not sure you can hold other people responsible for your inferences.

doober

The TSA is still not saying that you cannot fly without ID. They have done an "end around" and are saying that you can't get into the sterile area without ID. Of course, if you can't get into the sterile area you can't board your plane.

As I said before, they are sneaky b****ds.

GUWonder

DHS/DHS-TSA tries to be "crafty" ..... just like their bosses who insisted that torture isn't torture, at least not per their crafted definition of torture (a definition which allowed for the torture they wanted to allow because that is what they were doing anyway). They too however are far from being as sneaky as they may think themselves to be. Such a veil should be pierced easily enough, if coming in front of a judge or panel of judges that haven't bought into the authoritarian type of ways of the current Administration.

The TSA is saying that passengers can't get to the sterile area to fly without being identified by the TSA or some other government personnel -- and whether that identification is by way of photo ID or not, TSA is insisting on passenger identification by government personnel prior to granting permission to go airside and fly.

Dovster

Because I always admire someone who is willing to put himself on the line for a principle he truly believes in -- even if he and I might disagree about its importance.

GUWonder

If that's so, then it doesn't really matter what specific path or paths are taken to fight this.

Whether applicable to a specific FTer you wish to make the topic of the discussion or not, there are also ways to fight this that are not best discussed openly until long after having already fought it.

MrAndy1369

A few thoughts.

*Why are they doing this? What was wrong with the old system of sending somebody who said they had no ID/refuse to show ID to SSSS? Why make it more complicated with BDO interviews, etc? What does that have to do with safety at all?

*What about those with religions who prevent them from showing ID?

*What about minors? Are 17 and younger still exempt from showing ID?

*What can we do about this? Protest? Write TSA? Our Congresspeople? This hasn't made the news nationwide unlike the body scanners.