CBP keeping the country safe!
 

Amazing: http://edition.cnn.com/2007/US/11/14...uck/index.html

A Canadian firetruck responding with lights and sirens to a weekend fire in Rouses Point, New York, was stopped at the U.S. border for about eight minutes, U.S. border officials said Tuesday.

...

Fire officials battling the blaze called for help from fire departments in nearby Quebec, using a longstanding and often-used mutual aid agreement. But the first truck that arrived at the small Rouses Point border crossing was delayed as officials checked documentation of the firefighters and their truck, officials confirmed.

ID checks are apparently required for fighting fires under a long-standing cross-border mutual-aid agreement.

Do you want to fly, ahem, burn today??? :D

Each time you read a story like this, whether it's related to the TSA or CPB, you wonder "Can it get any worse?" And each time it does get worse. Will it never end?

It doesn't surprise me...stupidity from both the US and CDN sides at the border seems to be the status quo.

Hopefully karma will kick in if they ever need a quick response to their homes...

"Better safe than scorched!"

This story really burns my @$$. :D

"The terrorists are coming, where's my pen?" -Boston Legal-

Canadian firetruck responding to U.S. call held up at border
 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/11/14/bor...uck/index.html

Laughing stock of the world.

Also being discussed in OMNI:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=757127

I'd be willing to bet that if it were his house that they were responding to, that he'd let them through without any question.

Thanks. I only saw that after posting.

And here... http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=757136 ... Mods, time to close all these and refer to OMNI?

What was the quote I heard recently? Something like
or something like that.

I was pretty much thinking the same.

Sadly, I think it's going to take at least a generation. This generation has its panties too far done up in a wad.

If they didn't do this, it would make for a large very easy way to smuggle a few tons of goods across the border would it not? It's not as if this is a normal occurance. I've crossed at the border points in Quebec about 50 times. I have never heard or seen any fire trucks racing for the border. The border police were doing their due diligence. Searching a truck, checking the ID's of all aboard and running the plate in 8 minutes isn't bad. The article doesn't note if this has happened before, how long it usually takes, etc. It still is a vehicle coming from another country.

Unless the fire is preplanned, how would the Canadians know that the next call would be their opportunity to sneak illegal goods into the US? I imagine that space on a fire truck is very limited and everything has a purpose--in other words, there isn't the space to smuggle a few tons of goods across the border. There probably isn't the space to smuggle anything across the border.

This kind of border "protection" is only going to come back and hurt America--next time Canadians will think twice about even trying and let the building burn.

I seem to recall years back when Palestinian terror organizations would use ambulances as a ruse to blow up Israelis. You know, rush in, no one checks the ambulance or driver and then --- BOOOM!

Cross border firefighting is a concept I never really thought about before, and I'm glad that those communities have the ties to work together. However, it is not always CBP to blame for things like this.

Will a Canadian (or American) fire company responding to a cross-border fire be used as a ruse for a terror attack? Extremely doubtful. But it is not outside the realm of possibility.

The huge difference here is that they only cross the border at the request of the local American fire department. They don't just see a fire and go "hmm, looks like they need help. Let's speed across the border today."

To extend the rampant paranoia, "But what if the fire department on the American side was compromised?"

Another episode of 24 in the making.

You CANNOT protect against every conceivable threat.

And what if there was a sleeper agent three generations deep waiting for such an opportunity? That's the kind of Idiocy Prevention we're up against.

Maybe we should check the fire fighters' IDs when they arrive on the scene and frisk them for "dangerous" items? Better safe than sorry. You can't be too careful. :rolleyes:

So... the terrorists will get hold of a Canadian firetruck and uniforms, hide it and the crew somewhere near the border, have their U.S. cell start a major fire near the boarder, monitor the phone lines for the U.S. fire dept. to request help, then get to the border before the real Canadian firetruck, just so they can smuggle something or someone into the U.S.

Wouldn't it be easier for them to just acquire everything they need inside the U.S., and smuggle their operatives across the border in any of the weak areas of the tens of thousands of miles of U.S. boarder? The success of terrorist operation is based on fact that they make simple plans; the more complex, the more chance it will be detected or go wrong. This plan is way to complicated. Great for a hollywood movie, but in reality this is WAAAAY outside the realm of possibility.

When you're scared ....less nothing is outside your 'realm'. :(

No, firefighters being who they are they will respond again.

Unless it's the actual border post on fire :D ^

It may have been another article I read, but in an average year the fire department across the border in Quebec responds about 30 times a year. The same applies to the upstate New York fire department going into Quebec.

The mutual agreement has been around for many years as well.

With such an agreement in place, I believe the CBP should use common sense and allow for an expedited crossing.

Can you say mutually exclusive?

Oops... did I just put common sense and CBP into the same sentence? Not sure what I was thinking; my bad. Mea Culpa!

It gets better

Much more complete story here:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl.../National/home

You have to remember in that part of the continent, national boundaries run right through private houses, libraries and the like.

Wait. Don't firetrucks tend to have equipment like axes?

[lou dobbs voice on] You're telling me that CBP let undocumented foreigners carry sharp instruments that could have been used as weapons across the broken border!?! Incredible. French-speaking illegal aliens from Socialist Canada are allowed to steal jobs from ordinary American firefighters without even obtaining B-1 visas. All under the noses of the Border Patrol. [/lou dobbs voice off] ;)

Is there any chance the whole of the DHS would go on a wildcat strike? We need an air traffic controller-style housecleaning. Good on the firefighters (or whomever) for bringing this story to the media.

In my opinion, the US and Canada should have open borders anyway, similar to Schengen.

But we don't. Apparantly one or both nations wants to maintain border sovereignty. That includes the use of border control agents. Border Control agents who do (and should) have the authority to do their jobs.

So, regardless of what anyone thinks could or couldn't happen, it really doesn't matter. Until we do any with our US / Canadian borders (which I would be in favor of doing), our CBP officers are going to continue to enforce the laws of the US and their SOPs.

The US proposed something of this ilk post 9/11. Canada rejected it on the grounds that our foreign and domestic policies are incompatible with what the US would have imposed as restrictions on the entry of foreign nationals into the 'perimeter' area. For example, had Canada agreed, we likely would have been forced to fingerprint and photograph foreigners. Also, it is my understanding that Canada does not require entry visas from as many countries as does the US. This would have created problems too.

Back to the topic at hand. I am certain that CBP must have some discretionary powers. If so, logic dictates that SOP do not apply in this situation and that common sense should prevail.

Excuse if I am wrong but I would think the US fire dept would only request help from Canada if the situation was bigger than they could handle on thier own. Add to that that is was possible that lives were at risk and not just property!!! The thought that comes to mind is what if these minutes had cost a life??

Aha so they are protecting you - I am begining to think not!!

One possible solution to this situation for future consideration would be:

1. Canadian fire dept gets call for help from American fire dept.
2. Canadian fire dept dispatches truck(s).
3. Canadian fire dept dispatcher calls US CPD border post or their higher HQ-tells them that a Canadian fire truck is heading to the US to assist, please call our fire dept back at our official number.
4. CBP calls Canadian fire dept dispatch, gets the information (truck number, number of firefighters) and relays this info to the border station.
5. When fire truck arrives at the border, a quick glance to verify that it is in fact Engine# 18-52 with 4 firefighters on board, and through they go.
6. On the way back, do this in reverse.

You see, that wasn't so hard now, was it?

I was just envisioning how long 8 minutes is for someone waiting for help in dire situation.

One of the findings of the 9/11 Commission was that the government needed to do a better job ensuring that everyone involved in disaster response (terrorism or natural disaster) be able to communicate with each other. As a matter of fact, a good deal of the RF spectrum being made available by the mandatory conversion to the digital TV standard will go to the "first responders" so they can talk to each other. Of course, the GAO and others have found that the DHS (which owns CBP and FEMA) has failed miserably to implement this recommendation.

These two little border towns that help each other fight fires is an ideal location to use as a test bed. The US and Canadian 911-type dispatchers should all be using the same comm equipment and it should be tied to the border checkpoints of both countries. You would think that the CBP station would at least have a police scanner tuned to both the US and Canadian frequencies to be able to monitor dispatches heading their way. I would think that they would have a few minutes to clear a path for the fire truck or ambulance so they could zip through the border.

If CBP really is anal about the Canadian fire truck, there's no reason why they couldn't send someone along with the firetruck in a car to "monitor" the firefighters and to make sure they don't do something heinous like smuggle in Cuban cigars for their American colleagues.

The terrorists have destroyed common sense on a worldwide scale.

The terrorists have not destroyed it. Our own government has destroyed the common sense, using "terrywrists" as the reason.

Important distinction.

Our government COULD still use common sense if they wanted to, but no, they would rather trump up a rationale.

Our government has done far more damage to this country than the terrorists ever did. The amount we spend and waste in the name of "protecting the public" (which you can never really do) is much larger than the total cost of the terrorist attacks.

Agree 100% -- just wrote too quickly.

The government hasn't done anything that the people have not allowed them to get away with. The problem is that no politician can go out on a public forum and tell people "We can't protect you from___________". Or they can, but then they will be out of a job in a few years.

Can you blame them? The average American believes without a doubt that the world is only 6,000 years old. Take away the comfort blanket and what do you have left?

[QUOTE=etch5895;8741209Can you blame them? The average American believes without a doubt that the world is only 6,000 years old. Take away the comfort blanket and what do you have left?[/QUOTE]

Is that really true? More than 50% REALLY believe that? Or is that just a fun way to bash Americans?

Probably a fun way to bash Americans and those who believe in religion. Bad form. :td:

(Bolding mine)

Well. . . there was this poll back in 2004 that indicates 55% don't believe in evolution . . .

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/...in657083.shtml

But this really doesn't have anything to do with fire trucks and the border.