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Old Jan 29, 2007 | 4:58 pm
  #1  
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Need some help with explosive wipes and screening problems

I got a little more than I bargained for at Austin-Berstrom Airport this morning.

First, my backpack is filled with electronics and is routinely singled out for a search. While I mind, I've kind of gotten used to it. I have to carry a lot of electronics for work, plus being a gadget geek doesn't help. Fine, whatever.

Today, it was a little more extreme than it's been since the last time I had to go through LAS's screening. They pulled my bag aside and started wiping every single item and every single wire (I carry a lot of various chargers and USB/Firewire cables for my electronics) for explosives. I've had them check before, but never so intensively. At some point, one item or another signaled positive.

Now, I've never, ever had this happen, so I was curious what the protocol was. Apparently, it gets you a full patdown. The next wipe the guy put through the scanner alerted as well, which triggered "full on security alert".

A new guy appeared out of nowhere and started demanding articles out of my bag, saying, "I want to look at that, and that, and that" in a very authoritative tone. The items promptly disappeared from sight. I needn't mention that some of the items were very expensive, and my portable hard drive (which contains propriatary company data) also "disappeared". While they were spiriting my items away, they were also requesting my shoes (again) for whatever reason. Because of the distraction of asking for my shoes and everyone on "full alert", I didn't notice my items were missing until they were already gone.

Before anyone asks, it appears that nothing turned up missing -- this time.

I have a few questions though. The first is, what can I do to remove the "explosive residue" that signaled this whole process in the first place? The TSA agent was supremely unhelpful and actually upset that I'd ask such a question. I really don't want this to happen the next time I go through the airport, it's a waste of everyone's time.

The second is, what's the rate of false positives on these machines, can wipes be reused, and why isn't there a second test? The guy kept reusing the same three wipes over and over again, and even before the positive, all I could think of was that doing so many tests was bound to result in a positive, and the accumulation of "stuff" from each item could easily send the results past the "legal limit". It was pretty telling that every test he ran afterward was positive while every test his coworker ran was negitive. In some ways, I feel this was a manufactured positive.

Also, it seems like in the case of a positive, you'd use a fresh wipe and do the test again, just to make sure. This was never done, though I seem to recall it being done in Vegas.

Third, is the TSA allowed to carry items out of your sight? This is not the first time I've had them try to take my items away to a location where I could not see what they were doing with them. I've always managed to catch them before, but the speed at which my items disappeared this morning was incredible. The whole reason I don't check that bag is that some items in it are too expensive to lose and others simply cannot be replaced. I don't like having them out of my sight without some kind of documentation of what has been taken.

For the record, I did not have time to escalate this, as their intensive search very nearly made me miss my flight. I had to run to the gate for the first time in over 100 flights. They were paging me while the agents bickered over which of my items were "concerning".
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Old Jan 29, 2007 | 5:18 pm
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Your "false alarm" could have been from some moron putting his shoes on the sampling table.

They should never remove items from your sight, though.

Think of this being more akin to a car alarm, they go off all the time and nobody is up to anything. It just makes people take a closer look. They should have explained the situation to you, but I think it has become so routine for them, they forget the customer service part.

If you actually had anything to worry about on your next trip, they probably would have had more alarms. Just a side note, some of the compounds in certain heart medications are similar to what is being tested for. If you, or someone in your immediate family takes these, you may want to mention this should another alarm occur.
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Old Jan 29, 2007 | 5:30 pm
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They should not ever take things from your sight, nor inspect them without your explicit approval.

You probably can't remove the residue satisfactorly.

I do know of a case where the TSA confiscated the shoes of an executive from my former employer. He owns a farm. He had walked through freshly fertilized areas. It set off the trace detector. TSA refused to let him take the shoes on board, no way no how. And no amount of explaining, x-rays, or anything else convinced them otherwise (they were dress shoes...).

He showed up at the arrival airport with no shoes at all - our meeting planners had to find a shoe store for him.

He promptly called the airline, canceled the return flight, and (after the meeting) took a rental car and drove home 1200 miles. I do not believe that he's flown since.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 5:47 am
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Some odd things can alarm the Explosive Trace Detection (ETD) that they had used to swab the electronic items. Sometimes glycerine based hand creams can do it, and anybody touching nitoglycerine pills for heart conditions can easily move a trace amount to many other objects. High nitrogen fertilizer can do it, too. You just have to roll with the punches. There is absolutely nothing you can do and no recourse at all.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 8:24 am
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Good luck trying to explain the idea of a false positive rate to a TSA agent. I'm pretty sure you're SOL, unfortunately.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 11:06 am
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Any further testing for a positive hit on the ETD should be done in your sight.

Stop the person who attempts to abscond with your belongings and make it abundantly clear that they are not to leave your sight while they are being screened further.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 2:57 pm
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They take things out of my sight at LAX all the time despite my protests. It is the only airport I have this ongoing issue with. I have tested positive a couple of times with my aircast - then don't - I think it has more to do with a clean swab being used so I always ask for clean ones (just as I do for clean gloves before having a pat down).
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 3:23 pm
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Originally Posted by baglady
They take things out of my sight at LAX all the time despite my protests. It is the only airport I have this ongoing issue with. I have tested positive a couple of times with my aircast - then don't - I think it has more to do with a clean swab being used so I always ask for clean ones (just as I do for clean gloves before having a pat down).
"Stop! Do not remove my property from my line of sight!"

Summon a law enforcement officer if you need to.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 3:48 pm
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My checked luggage tested positive for TnT residue at SDF once.

I prefer to watch my luggage at airports where screening is done in the lobby as it is with SDF. They first ran it through the CTX and determined it needed to be searched by hand. When they did the hand search the screener swabbed the inside of a Walgreen's bag which had shampoo & personal hygene items in it... (FWIW, I had just purchased it earlier in the day and tossed it in my suitcase before going to the airport).

After the swab that was taken from the inside of the Walgreens bag tested positive for TnT traces they got a TSA Supervisor to go through the bag and clear it. The TSA opened every bottle (shampoo, conditioner, shaving cream, etc) in my suitcase and went thru every nook and crany and cleared my checked luggage.

When this happened, the TSA requested my ID and boarding pass. The TSA then took all of my personal details down off my drivers license and also put my flight numbers into a log book. When I asked what this info was being collected for and where it would go, I wasn't given a clear response.

I followed-up with a complaint to the TSA via my Senator's office, but got a bunch of TSA double-speak. My senator's office contacted the TSA again to seek for clarification (they saw through the double-speak), but I have no idea if the TSA ever used any of the personal info (and if so, in what manner) & if it was kept or destoyed. To this day I don't know if the logbook went in the trash, was shredded, was put into a database, or is in a government warehouse somewhere in a big box of paperwork.

This happened several years ago shortly after the TSA was formed. I haven't had a false-positive since then. Be careful using the word "false-positive" to a TSA sup though -- he didn't like it when I used that word..

Last edited by SDF_Traveler; Jan 30, 2007 at 3:56 pm
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 5:18 pm
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Originally Posted by SDF_Traveler
My checked luggage tested positive for TnT residue at SDF once.

I prefer to watch my luggage at airports where screening is done in the lobby as it is with SDF. They first ran it through the CTX and determined it needed to be searched by hand. When they did the hand search the screener swabbed the inside of a Walgreen's bag which had shampoo & personal hygene items in it... (FWIW, I had just purchased it earlier in the day and tossed it in my suitcase before going to the airport).

After the swab that was taken from the inside of the Walgreens bag tested positive for TnT traces they got a TSA Supervisor to go through the bag and clear it. The TSA opened every bottle (shampoo, conditioner, shaving cream, etc) in my suitcase and went thru every nook and crany and cleared my checked luggage.

When this happened, the TSA requested my ID and boarding pass. The TSA then took all of my personal details down off my drivers license and also put my flight numbers into a log book. When I asked what this info was being collected for and where it would go, I wasn't given a clear response.

I followed-up with a complaint to the TSA via my Senator's office, but got a bunch of TSA double-speak. My senator's office contacted the TSA again to seek for clarification (they saw through the double-speak), but I have no idea if the TSA ever used any of the personal info (and if so, in what manner) & if it was kept or destoyed. To this day I don't know if the logbook went in the trash, was shredded, was put into a database, or is in a government warehouse somewhere in a big box of paperwork.

This happened several years ago shortly after the TSA was formed. I haven't had a false-positive since then. Be careful using the word "false-positive" to a TSA sup though -- he didn't like it when I used that word..

You are now on the Government's watch list and will be tracked everywhere you go. If you look out your window, you will probably see a dark sedan. Pay no attention to it.



Just kidding.

The logs are archived locally and no data is taken from it. The logs are accountability for who cleared what alarm for which bag. Privacy protections are supposed to be adhered to.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 5:48 pm
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Could be worse. A cousin of mine works for a defense contractor. His specialty is, as far as I understand, explosive bolts, so he handles a lot of explosives as part of his daily job. He carries a DoD letter with him every time he travels, since he (and his work laptop) alarm pretty much every time they're swabbed. Doesn't bug him, though, since, for all the shoe carnivals and liquid silliness, we DO want to take a close look at people whose property has explosive residue on it.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 5:58 pm
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123
Could be worse. A cousin of mine works for a defense contractor
...

Doesn't bug him, though, since, for all the shoe carnivals and liquid silliness, we DO want to take a close look at people whose property has explosive residue on it.
Similar situation - I frequently fly through Watertown, NY (ART) which has Fort Drum and the 10th Mountain Division as primary customers for the airport. Needless to say, I'm sure the positive rate for explosives residue on their duffels is fairly high. I've seen at least one poor schmuck standing there while they tear the guy's bag apart... same reason as above, I have no problem, isn't that what the alarms are for?

I'm surprised no one from the ART fares from two years ago never noticed any army dudes getting searched.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 7:25 pm
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Originally Posted by cestmoi123
we DO want to take a close look at people whose property has explosive residue on it.
I agree on that. I wasn't so concerned that I got singled out, as I can see how the massive amount of wires and electronics I carry could be tough to distinguish between "innocent" and "bomb". No problem.

What I did have a problem with is the following:

1. Using a wipe over and over and over again. I'm sure the machines are set to go off above a certain threshold, and there are "safe" levels that are detected but don't set off the machine. Primarily, this is done to minimize false positives. By using a wipe over and over again, you can build up what would otherwise be a trace contaminent into a false positive. In some ways, I feel my positive result was manufactured. Swap enough stuff in the luggage enough times, and sooner or later, you'll accumlate enough to set off the bomb detector.

I've never seen an inspector use the same wipe more than once, and despite all the times I've been swabbed, I've never seen anyone do that many tests on my luggage. It was easily three or four times the normal amount.

2. Why did the TSA agent get upset with me when I asked him how to avoid this in the future? I'm asking so that his guys don't have to waste their time on me the next time I fly, which they will if I can't figure out how to clean the "explosive residue" off my personal items. It's also terribly inconvienent to me as well.

3. I'm still upset they took things out of my sight. This is not the first time TSA agents have tried. They were successful this time because when I looked down to untie my shoes (GIVE US YOUR SHOES!!) they scooped up my stuff and took it away.

I noticed because I had been keeping my eye on my external hard drive. If I lose that, I've lost data I can never replace, and some of it is very confidential work data. When I handed the lady my shoes I immediately noticed my hard drive was missing. I asked where it was, and she told me they had taken it to "inspect" it. I asked her to let me go where it was, and I was told I had to stay right where I was, I was a security threat. When I asked her to bring it back and inspect it in front of me, she said it would be back soon enough. I didn't get to push the issue much further, as it did come back fairly quickly -- they were rerunning it through the xray machine.

Still, I don't like my personal items disappearing from my sight. If they have to go, I want written documentation of what was taken and by whom. Too easy for stuff to go missing.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by einTier
1. Using a wipe over and over and over again.
I don't see a problem with that. When the swab comes out of the detector it is cleaner than when it when in. That's because the swab is heated to remove all the volatiles. So, if the detector gives a negative result, that means the swab has to be clean, and it can be used again. The only time you have to worry is when the detector gives very strong positive, in that case you could have a carryover contamination of the next sample due to incomplete volatilization of the sample.
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Old Jan 30, 2007 | 8:34 pm
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Originally Posted by einTier
I noticed because I had been keeping my eye on my external hard drive. If I lose that, I've lost data I can never replace, and some of it is very confidential work data. When I handed the lady my shoes I immediately noticed my hard drive was missing. I asked where it was, and she told me they had taken it to "inspect" it. I asked her to let me go where it was, and I was told I had to stay right where I was, I was a security threat. When I asked her to bring it back and inspect it in front of me, she said it would be back soon enough. I didn't get to push the issue much further, as it did come back fairly quickly -- they were rerunning it through the xray machine.

Still, I don't like my personal items disappearing from my sight. If they have to go, I want written documentation of what was taken and by whom. Too easy for stuff to go missing.
That, right there, is worthy of a letter and phone call to your Congressional and Senatorial offices. They should NOT remove things from your sight. I would squawk, loudly, if that were to happen to me.
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