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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 2:45 pm
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Minimum Standards for Passports

I remember all the yelping about biometrics in passports and documents. Now that I need a passport to go back and forth between the US and Canada, I am wondering if I will have a problem with ICE on my way home because my Canadian passport lacks any bar code or biometic identifier.

It is a passport that was manually created by the Canadian Consular office in Miami about 4 years ago - and I specifically had it done there to avoid all these bar codes, and other crap they are putting in passports issued these days.

Is there a requirement that a passport have a bar code or magnetic strip to be valid for entry to the US? Is my current passport along with my Green Card enough to get me back home (here) without a big hassle, or do I need to apply for a new one?
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 3:11 pm
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Can you say OCR? That counts as "machine readable".

There should be a couple of lines at the edge of the cover/identification page that contain your name, passport number, etc. That text is specifically formed for optical character recognition.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 3:13 pm
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It looks something like this:
P>COUNTRY>LASTNAME>FIRSTNAME>>>>>>>>>>>>
PASSPORTNUBMER#>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

I don't have mine in front of me, so it might be out of order and there may be things missing.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 3:23 pm
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So far as I am aware it will not make any difference, your green card is the important document. My understanding is that the requirement for machine readable blah blah depends on the date of issue of the passport and is specifically in regard to visitors as opposed to permanent residents but hey I have been known to be wrong before

Edit to update

U.S. Lawful Permanent Residents (LPRs)
must provide one of the following:

I-551, Permanent Resident Card (“Green Card”)
Machine-Readable Immigrant Visa endorsed with a CBP Admission Stamp
Temporary Residence Stamp (ADIT stamp) contained in a passport or on Form I-94
Valid Reentry Permit
Unexpired Immigrant Visa

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/al...anentResidents
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 6:11 pm
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Originally Posted by javajunkie
Can you say OCR? That counts as "machine readable".

There should be a couple of lines at the edge of the cover/identification page that contain your name, passport number, etc. That text is specifically formed for optical character recognition.
My passport does not have that information...no OCR, strip or machine readable data of any kind. It was made by hand at the Consulate.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 6:24 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
My passport does not have that information...no OCR, strip or machine readable data of any kind. It was made by hand at the Consulate.
KEWL!!! How does it differ from the ones the rest of us get??

--PP
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 6:37 pm
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well, firstly it's a Canadian passport...so that is one difference but it looks like any standard passport - it's just missing all the electronic stuff like OCR, machine readable, etc.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 7:16 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
well, firstly it's a Canadian passport...so that is one difference but it looks like any standard passport - it's just missing all the electronic stuff like OCR, machine readable, etc.
So let's get this straight. You had your passport specially made just to be, um..., difficult? I have sent passports off to places for the newest technology (machine readable to London, back in the day, for my NZ passport, and RFID to Sydney for my Aussie passport), so that I always have the newest technology. I'm not suggesting that. But taking extra steps to have an outdated passport? Just unnecessary. Not that you'll have any problems since you're and LPR and have a PRC anyway, but still .
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 7:18 pm
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Originally Posted by stevenshev
So let's get this straight. You had your passport specially made just to be, um..., difficult? I have sent passports off to places for the newest technology (machine readable to London, back in the day, for my NZ passport, and RFID to Sydney for my Aussie passport), so that I always have the newest technology. I'm not suggesting that. But taking extra steps to have an outdated passport? Just unnecessary. Not that you'll have any problems since you're and LPR and have a PRC anyway, but still .
Why do you assume I'm being difficult? I don't like any type of encoding on my document...I don't want my movements tracked or encoded on my passport. There is nothing difficult about it - it's either valid or invalid.

When I get a passport with a RFID chip, rest assured I will destroy the chip inside and make it unusable.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 7:52 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
...I don't want my movements tracked...
And what makes you think that not having an encoded travel doc means they can't track your movements?

Now let's all put on our tinfoil beanies and recite the paranoia pledge...



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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 8:05 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
Why do you assume I'm being difficult? I don't like any type of encoding on my document...I don't want my movements tracked or encoded on my passport. There is nothing difficult about it - it's either valid or invalid.

When I get a passport with a RFID chip, rest assured I will destroy the chip inside and make it unusable.
Do you really think that they can't just use the machine-readable bit of your PRC to track your movements? Or that they can't type in your passport number?

You do understand that their typing in your passport number gives them EXACTLY the same info as the machine readable bit and almost exactly the same info as RFID, right? It just means they have to do more work in typing it, wasting your time as much as theirs...also, everyone else has normal passports, why do you need to be special? That's called being difficult. Not to mention non-sensical.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 8:26 pm
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Originally Posted by stevenshev
Do you really think that they can't just use the machine-readable bit of your PRC to track your movements? Or that they can't type in your passport number?

You do understand that their typing in your passport number gives them EXACTLY the same info as the machine readable bit and almost exactly the same info as RFID, right? It just means they have to do more work in typing it, wasting your time as much as theirs...also, everyone else has normal passports, why do you need to be special? That's called being difficult. Not to mention non-sensical.
Regardless, I don't want the OCR or anything like that on my passport, nor will I allow the RFID chip to function if I ever get a passport with one.

As for being difficult or special, regardless, it's much easier and faster for me to drive to downtown Miami and have my passport made by a Consular officer in an hour while I sit in their nice office and read magazines instead of filling out a mound of paperwork to ship off to Ottawa so I can wait weeks for my passport to be made and mailed to me.

The purpose of my post was to make sure the passport I currently have can be used to go back and forth without a problem. As another poster has answered that, I am satisfied I don't need to replace it.

As for the tinfoil stuff, I maintain it's really none of the Canadian Government's business where I travel to or when I travel. I don't live there anymore and they have no business knowing my business. If I had an extra 25K around, I would probably do what a great many people do and that is buy a second passport from another country with a different name to enter other countries when traveling and use my Canadian passport to return back here. You would be surprised by the number of people who carry second passports with alternate identities in addition to their US/Canada/UK/whatever passport to guard their privacy...like it or not.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 8:32 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
Regardless, I don't want the OCR or anything like that on my passport, nor will I allow the RFID chip to function if I ever get a passport with one.
And I'm sure they'll charge you with a Indictable Offence for mutilating your passport if and when they discover it. You're a citizen of Canada, and expect to travel internationally; I think it's absurd that you think it's unfair for your government to know where you've been when they've issued you the very document that allows you to travel.

And by the way, all my comments were made AFTER I said that they were irrelevant, because you had a valid PRC.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 8:50 pm
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Originally Posted by stevenshev
And I'm sure they'll charge you with a Indictable Offence for mutilating your passport if and when they discover it. You're a citizen of Canada, and expect to travel internationally; I think it's absurd that you think it's unfair for your government to know where you've been when they've issued you the very document that allows you to travel.

And by the way, all my comments were made AFTER I said that they were irrelevant, because you had a valid PRC.
You might want to look up the thread on RFID passports here...there is a long list of FTers who will be destroying the RFID tags in their US passports.

Destroying my passport is not an indictable offense in Canada (nor do I believe it's one here either but I could be wrong), although destroying it might invalidate it though. I doubt deactivating the RFID tag qualifies as destroying the passport unless there is proof it was deliberate. Proving the RFID tag failed because of deliberate tampering is very hard unless there is physical damage and the web is full of tips and tricks on how to deactivate or destroy the tag without leaving obvious traces of damage.

No, I don't think it's absurd to state that Canada doesn't need to know where I travel to. They have no jurisdication over me anymore. I don't live there and my residency is long abandoned. They can know when I enter or leave Canada, but I don't think it's any of their business if I take a trip to a third country. I am a US resident, so that information would be germaine to and available to ICE here. Once my naturalization is completed here, I will continue to abide by the laws of this country because I live here, but it doesn't mean I won't use all legal and available means to protect my privacy and my activities from prying eyes as many US citizens currently do - and more are likely to do in the future as the level of monitoring is stepped up.

I don't need Canada's permission to travel - the document was issued for the purpose of establishing proof of my citizenship to other countries and establishing the basis for my admittance to those countries as a visitor. If they decide to revoke my passport, I can petition for temporary US documents so I can travel abroad.
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Old Jan 25, 2007 | 11:39 pm
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Those new machine-readable passports are actually better.
Re-entering my country was easy, because there was only one other person in front of me at Customs....in the "new machine-readable passport" area. Took less than 2 mins. If that's all it takes, then I don't care if it's an invasion of privacy or not. I have nothing to hide.
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