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-   -   Minimum Standards for Passports (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/652289-minimum-standards-passports.html)

HLS2002 Sep 13, 2007 2:59 pm

Does Canada still issue full-validity passports at consulates abroad that don't have the MRZ? I got my current US passport in the very last days of full passports being available at the consulates. It does have the MRZ, though. My last non-MRZ US passport was from 1980. It seems like most countries are moving toward issuing only temporary passports (I think 1-year for the US) in the foreign outposts. The full-validity, high-tech passports are all issued back home. I understand the ICAO standards require phasing out the hand-written passports within a few years.

moeve Sep 14, 2007 4:02 am

bocaststephen: get used to it while you are in possesion of a Canadian Passport your are "THEIRS".... They are responsible for what you do and what happens to you anywhere in the world eg. get kidnapped somewhere it is their problem to get you back! You will pay for it somewhere but the Canadians are responsible for conducting "release talks"

As to not wanting any sort of technical ID possiblity in your passport well I would get used to not travelling anywhere soon, since things are due to change in the near future. Soon one will even require one for EU travel if you are from a non EU country. That is already in the pipeline.

Disabling the RFID Chip is currently not a problem since this system is not in use YET but when the time comes I bet you will be required to replace your passport at your own cost if the chip no longer works. How ever remember the chip is not the only component that could fail.... inside the cover is a small arieal (for the lack of a better discription) this component does NOT have a 10 year garantee so chances are we will all be replacing our passport faster to to failure of those components and that on our own cost....

Oh by the way a little fact you might want to know the passport does not belong to you - it is indeed the property of the issuing country. The fee you pay is meerly a processing fee.

GUWonder Sep 14, 2007 4:40 am


Originally Posted by SDF_Traveler (Post 7098924)
I've never had that happen, but I'm not sure if they always get the full PNR data. For example I'll fly BCN-AMS-JFK on KLM. At BCN when I check in I get all my BP's including a connection BP on DL (Comair) from JFK-SDF.

Upon arrival in JFK, I'm asked what countries I visited and I said Spain --the immigration officer only has a record of my AMS-JFK segment. I then have to explain I only switched planes at AMS and I didn't stay in Holland.

I suppose with Schengen, you're technically entering/exiting at AMS because that is where you go through passport control - but when your PNR shows BCN-AMS-JFK it should be clear I was only a transit passenger.

With the PNR feed the airlines provide, isn't CBP supposed to get all of the flights on the PNR including my actual origination? Sometimes I question what amount of information they have when they scan my passport. Other times I question if their computers are fully up or if there is a communications outage with the central CBP computer system(s) (especially at JFK a couple of times).

I'm usually asked how long I've been outside of the US - which I know is a standard question most passengers get. While there is no exit control, I was always under the impression the airlines turn their passenger lists over to CBP for flights departing the US. That way they should have a record of your departure.

While on the subject of AMS transfers, on the landing card where it asks for the countries you've been to -- do you include The Netherlands when you're only in-transit making a connection, or are you just supposed to list where you've actually been? Normally I'll just put AMS-transit and then list where I had actually been to.

Last but not least, I have seen CBP officers look puzzled when I return to the US on a ticket other than my original outbound as I'll sometimes buy a ticket with a one year validity, use the outbound, and then travel to/from the US on new tickets before using the final leg of the first ticket a year later. Based on that I suspect the airlines do send them departure PNR info... (?)

Even when they get the PNR data, like they generally do, it doesn't mean their systems are all up to speed and that the feed took and processed properly.

I put down the transit countries on the US customs form -- especially when the routing is via AMS -- because, whether cleared into or out of the Schengen zone at AMS or other transit point, the PNR feeds which DHS uses generally include the entire routing. Easier to not give the opportunity to say "why did you leave this off?"

The "why is a US person resident in the US starting trips outside of the US to return to the US" does seem to cause some of them to adjust themselves a bit more than usual.

bocastephen Sep 14, 2007 2:00 pm


get used to it while you are in possesion of a Canadian Passport your are "THEIRS".... They are responsible for what you do and what happens to you anywhere in the world eg. get kidnapped somewhere it is their problem to get you back! You will pay for it somewhere but the Canadians are responsible for conducting "release talks"
I am am not "owned" by the Gov of Canada - nor are they responsible for what I do abroad. If I break the law in a foreign country, I'm on my own and they make this fact very clear to travelers. They will not negotiate for my release or take more than a cursory action to get me freed from jail or kidnappers.


As to not wanting any sort of technical ID possiblity in your passport well I would get used to not traveling anywhere soon, since things are due to change in the near future. Soon one will even require one for EU travel if you are from a non EU country. That is already in the pipeline.
I have no interest in visiting or transiting Europe until they stop the security theater - if things get too troublesome abroad, I have no problem just hoofing it around the good 'ol US of A.


Disabling the RFID Chip is currently not a problem since this system is not in use YET but when the time comes I bet you will be required to replace your passport at your own cost if the chip no longer works.
Good luck proving I was the one who broke it :)

HLS2002 Sep 14, 2007 4:14 pm

Even though the ICAO standard is to phase out non-MRTDs in the coming years (basically in 2015), isn't there a big difference between a MRTD and an ePassport? I thought the controversy surrounded only the latter. I'm a little uncomfortable about the chip, but I don't mind the clear typing of my name, birthday, and passport number.

I think there are still countries with decent visa-free travel that don't have plans to introduce passports with the RFID chips. And as far as I know, only the US has ended visa-free travel for non-MRTDs. Thus even if all the EU states implement ePassports (which seems likely), I'm not aware of any plan that would prevent, say, a Brazilian citizen with a hand-written passport issued at a remote consulate from passing freely through the Schengen states.

Hvr Sep 15, 2007 3:00 am

Surely if you're worried about being tracked across the world you don't use a credit card in your own name, nor do you have a mobile (cell) phone in your own name as well?

Lots of ways other than passprts to track you.

You mention the security theatre in Europe at the moment. The face of the USA is far more forbidding to a lot of travellers, mandatory fingerprinting and photographing with only one non-appealable chance to impress the border guard (immigration/customs, whatever) are far less enticing than several other countries.


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