I have to say that I have worked for companies where this would have been a dismissable offence on the grounds of stupidity...

I am not an attorney, but I don't think stupdity is a crime. I believe it is a measure of one's mental capacities relative to a statistical population. On the other hand, in the free market environment and in my career experience, not adhering to stated employer policy, rules, regulations, or not taking the time to be sufficiently informed of one's responsibilities it order to properly fulfill the function for which one is hired, is grounds for dismissal.

I suppose this is why traditional wisdom, at least as I have heard it, is to get a government job the benefits are great and there is job security.

I didn't say it was a crime. But I think it would be hard to defend against a charge of being grossly negligent with company property (i.e. "stupid" in legalese), which is a dismissable offence.

I agree with both your posts, but I was trying to make a distinction between the "real world" and what appears to be the practices of the government and their agencies. I believe time will show that even crimes against humanity are not punishable so long as you are coming from a position of strength. This position is further reinforced by the fact that the US has withdrawn from several international treaties, as it did not suit the government's purpose.

I believe what many travelers experience is what I refer to as "s... rolling down hill". If the most powerful people in the government can behave in a certain fashion, than one can certainly behave the same. Of course there are rare exceptions, with the majority ocurring in the military. There have been several examples of late where the "guys in the trenches" are punished while their superiors remain unscathed.

Truman's principle that "the buck stops here" no longer appears to be in fashion. Those of us who are in positions of authority (i.e. bosses, etc) set the tone of an organization by example. I have experienced and witnessed this axion at work many many times, both in a positive and negative context.

Holding my tongue on the common sense shown by our friends in the government's employ.

If it's not your machine, you're not out anything and not entitled to compensation for the computer itself.

Claim compensation for those things you lost that you actually owned, and report the missing computer to whomever gave it to you.

Opinionstrader -

If the government you are referring to is the US Government, then if in fact the machine was stolen, and stealing government property is a federal offense, this ratchets up the severity of the crime. If the machine was purchased under a no bid procurement process, then the original cost could be substantially more than what a citizen would have paid at a local electronics store for an equivalent machine.

Based on a program I saw recently, it was claimed that the US Government was being charged by their contractor $45 for a six pack of Coke, which can be purchased at any supermarket in the States for $5.00 or $6.00. Of course one could argue that the shipping costs are substantial from the US to Iraq, but in fact the purchased soft drinks were domestic.

At any rate the value of the purportedly stolen computer as purchased from the vendor could be as much as $7-9,000, clearly a substantial amount of money.

As a tax paying citizen, I consider the alleged stolen computer my property, or at least a pro-rata share, and hope that you have been in contact with the FBI on this matter. I feel certain if Elliot Ness were still with the Bureau something would probably be done about this.

Perhaps the perpetrator needed a computer on which to store veterans records, or Los Alamos files that were claimed to have been stolen or misplaced. Is this the tip of the iceberg?

Greetings! Since this is my first post on flyertalk, I want to thank everyone who responded. I really appreciate all of your comments. However I have to apologize as I see that I did not explain the situation adequately, and some of you made comments about aspects of the situation that don't apply because I had not explained myself thoroughly at first. Let me try again with more details. I went to a seminar in Boston from Raleigh; I thought I'd need the laptop and as it was a business related trip, and I work for the govt, I asked to borrow a govt laptop. The machine was old; about 5-6 years old; and I'd prefer not to discuss values as I dont want to prejudice my claim; but it was far from new and had no govt data. This was only the second time I ever traveled with a laptop and I honestly was not knowledgeable about the wisdom (or lack thereof) of checking it as checked luggage versus leaving it in carry-on luggage. It arrived on Boston OK, but on the way home to Raleigh, I asked the American airlines baggage counter lady if it would be safe to check. She unequivocally said OK and that was the last I saw of it. [I wish I could go back in time and take it with me but ...] It never arrived in Raleigh. I filed the claim with American immediately, that very night. I followed up with the TSA, the Boston police (who have a lost and found office at Logan airport) and I did inquire about using my homeowners policy. The police had nothing. The TSA in Boston were very helpful and called me several times though they had no information. What they said is that TSA randomly checks about every fifth or sixth bag (of checked luggage) and if they had opened it and checked it and it was lost then I could file a claim with TSA; however after research they said that my baggage claim numbers showed that my laptop was not among their checked items. On using my homeowners insurer, I honestly dont recall the details but I think the problem was that although the laptop was in my "care control or custody" (I'm beginning to sound like an insurance agent!) it wasn't owned and the limit (again I apologize but this all occurred in October so the details are kinda fuzzy) was either really low or the deductible was really high; so it simply wasn''t economically feasible to file plus there was possibility of being cancelled; trust me it wasnt a reasonable approach though if it was a brand new say 2K-3K laptop then for sure it would be worth it. So that left only filing with American Airlines itself. So I did file my claim with American and I documented everything but I noticed that on their claim form they have something that says that if you take a travel voucher instead of actual cash then they will pay you at least 20% more. So I figured the smart action was to file for cash, try to maximize that; then go back to American and ask for the travel voucher instead and then I would sign over the value of the (presumably 20% higher value voucher) to the government. American responded to all of this by offering to pay me $50. So that is where things stand and I want to ask you again, now that I have explained everything better, if you can offer me any "words of wisdom". What's my best course of action from this point going forward? How can I get the best value for the laptop which I would simply pay over to the govt? Thank you so much, in advance, for all of your help!!! Arthur

This just begs the question in my mind...

Airports in India put a simple zip-tie on all checked luggage once it gets X-rayed in your prescence. I know that it is not hard to snap a zip tie, steal some stuff, and put a new one on , but it is something of a barrier.

Why don't we do this? Cost? For a couple zip ties. I think that the airlines should be wholely responsible for full replacement value of laptop and software, as long as it is declared in checked baggage. Why should they and the TSA get away with incompetence and criminal activity?

Opinionstrader - Your recap certainly covers all the bases. I think the one statement I found surprising, although given my experience with airport security, in hindsight it again shows my naivety.

You make the statement that "What they said is that TSA randomly checks about every fifth or sixth bag (of checked luggage) and if they had opened it and checked it and it was lost then I could file a claim with TSA."

After having been arrested at LAX shortly before my departure, and twice suggesting my bag be removed from the plane, I was advised that it was being taken care of. In fact the bag went on to NY without me. As in my judgement I felt that such action was a serious breach of security (Does the arrest of a passenger, shortly before a departure constitute "unusual behavior" - ORANGE ALERT?) I brought it to the attention of the powers that be. I guess the "brane" trust felt otherwise.

I wrote Homeland Security and the airline, and was advised, although for the moment I forget if both or one advised me, that it was not an issue, as all bags are screened.

I may be old fashioned but I feel, and it is only my opinion, that "every fifth or six bag" is not the same as "all bags".

At any rate, government property was misplaced, and therefore a crime may have been committed, and I stand by my statement that this should be reported to the appropriate Federal agency, probably the FBI. To make matters more complicated, you may very well have an obligation to advise the government of the misplacing of their property, otherwise you might be in voilation of some law and subject to prosecution.

Imagine the machine turning up, and based on the serial number it is returned to a government agency which then checks that it was provided to the division you work for. Now your division may have records that indicate the machine was "signed out to you", and you were silent on the matter! And by your own admission it is a Government machine in your possession, or at least was in your possession. Remember, Flyer talk threads and posts, like all communications can be accessed bu US security organizations. But then this is a small sacrifice to help you (us) on the war on terrorism. Therefore it would be even more difficult for you to back away from statements you have already made on this site.

Playing devil's advocate for a moment -

1) How do we know you put the computer in your checked bag?
2) How can you substantiate that the ticket agent advised you it was okay?
3) How do we know there was no Government information on the machine, without the machine?
4) Etc, etc.

While I am sure the authorities would believe you had the machine, they may very well not believe your subequent statements. The criminal mind is very devious.

In my view the only solice you can take from this is be honest, be true to yourself, and subject yourself to the vagaries of the system.

All checked bags are screened. A bag doesn't have to be opened to be screened. I think the "5th or 6th bag" refers to the opening of the bag.

Plus, it has been my experiance, that you can go 20 to 30 bags without opening any of them. Then on other occasions, it seems every other bag has to been gone thru. Alot depends on what's in the bag to begin with.

[QUOTE=TakeScissorsAway;7025608]All checked bags are screened. A bag doesn't have to be opened to be screened. I think the "5th or 6th bag" refers to the opening of the bag.

Plus, it has been my experiance, that you can go 20 to 30 bags without opening any of them. Then on other occasions, it seems every other bag has to been gone thru. Alot depends on what's in the bag to begin with.[/QUOTE

"I think" the "5th or 6th bag" refers to the opening of the bag. - Perhaps - perhaps not. I cannot intuit what the airline and/or Homeland Security writer meant. In the context of my comment I construed screening to be "opening of the bag."

I will write a follow up letter and hope that the person is still in the employ of the airline and/or HS. If so, I should expect a response within five or six months.

My understanding was that ALL checked bags containing laptops are opened by TSA. First they go through an x-ray, the laptop is spotted, and the laptop is removed from the bag for a hand inspection. So there should be nothing random about the laptop check. Am I wrong?

Good comments all! About TSA: my understanding is they do screen every piece of checked luggage but they only open about every fifth or sixth bag -- ON AVERAGE (either something unusual pops up on their screen or a random check). This is what Logan's TSA rep told me. Of course it may vary for other airports. Reporting: I reported the missing laptop on the next business day to my employer. The IT dept told me it had no data on it only the usual programs such as Microsoft Office. So far as honesty goes: well I try to live my life as honestly as I can; I am not interested in receiving anything of personal benefit; I simply want to get the best financial outcome for the government. A brand new laptop today (and this one was a Dell from June 2001) --- on the low end of the market would probably be $500-1000 --- although you can certainly spend more! So far as the federal limit of liability of $2800 per bag; my understanding is there are no federal law limitations on the type of checked luggage. My question to you is whether it is worth it to file in small claims court. American would claim its "conditions of carriage" preclude coverage for laptops and other valuable items; but is that my best option? Thanks , in advance, for your comments! Arthur