Surrender or Confiscation?
 

One topic that we've gone over on this forum a number of times is whether items at the checkpoint are surrendered or confiscated.

The position of the govt (and screeners here) is that you have a choice.. you can leave the line and put items in your car (if you have it with you), give them to a friend (if they are around) or mail them (if that service is available).

The contrary position is that what happens at the checkpoint is effectively confiscation. Screening is not consistent and it is hard to know in advance what will be prohibited by particular screeners. Given that, you are not really surrendering, you are merely given a choice of whether your time will be confiscated (having to leave the line, take care of your item and rejoin) or your property. This amounts to a form of coercion. The evidence is seen in the number of items that people "surrender." People don't just give their property to the govt because they love the govt, they are giving it up because it is less valuable than their plane ticket, a ticket that could be jeopardy if they have to rejoin one of those interminable lines.

There is another argument for calling it confiscation. In another thread, a screener mentioned that once you "surrender" an item, it becomes the property of the government; you can't get it back. Well, that is clearly confiscation. Leaving one's wallet on the sidewalk does not make it the property of the govt. The TSA has the choice of confiscating the items or forming a lost and found system. The fact that they haven't done the latter clearly makes the transaction a form of confiscation.

Why not take some personal responsibility for your actions? You should know by now that the security lines will be long during certain times of the travel day. Why can you not plan ahead? Ever hear of time management?

As for confiscation, there's a difference between a wallet that's left on the sidewalk and an item that is intentionally turned over to an agent of the government for final disposition. When you turn a prohibited item over to a screener, your actions signify your intent to surrender responsibility for the item by transfering that responsibility to the government (TSA). If the reason you do so is because you don't want to go through the hassle of standing in line again, please refer to my previous comment above about planning ahead and time management.

Clearly TSA has a responsibility of properly explaining your options to you. If a TSA screener fails to do this correctly, then you do have a case of confiscation. Talking about prohibited items such as scissors, most knives, hazardous materials, etc. Illegal weapons and bombs fall under a different situation, but then again, you will be dealing with a state-licensed peace officer rather than a screener in that situation.

I am with Bart on this issue. Passengers are responsible for time management. Some passengers severely limit their options by not allowing adequate time ahead of their flight. "Expect the unexpected" and "be prepared" are two sayings come to mind.

I find it utterly amazing how agents of the government will consistently go out of their way to tell people what their actions mean rather than asking people what their actions mean. When I hand something to someone it does not mean that I am "signifying me intent to transfer responsibility." If you want to know what I intend, ask me. This sort of "coded language" of actions and "implied consent" is nothing more than a tool of coercion.

Of course you are.

The problem is that we are not responsible for your mismanagement. The TSA mismanages time at checkpoints, and it mismanages its authority by arbitrarily banning items that are not on the prohibited items list. If those abuses were curtailed, it would then become an issue of passenger time management. Don't try to pass the buck.

Whirled,

Sorry, you are clearly in the wrong in your responses. There are a number of things that you should be doing to mitigate your experiences at the airport. It appears that you are a novice traveler, so let me give you some advice on enhancing your airport experience.

1. Plan ahead, both for security and timing. For instance, let's say that you are planning on traveling from Miami to Boston on a Friday afternoon 12 months from now. Don't wait until right before the trip to begin developing your airport strategy. Instead, go to the airport each Friday afternoon between now and then. Keep a careful chart of how long the security line is and look for trends in the wait times. That way, you will have a better idea of exactly how to plan your travel. A few weeks before your trip, start going to the airport every day to plan. Look for last-minute changes at security that may affect you. I understand that security time waits can change drastically on a daily basis, so this is something that you must prepare for. Effective time management will greatly increase your chances of making your flight.

2. Interview TSA and security officials ahead of time. The TSA is a large organization, and to expect each employee to understand the different rules and interpret them the same way is just silly. After all, you see a sharpened pencil where I see a potential dagger. By interviewing the TSA employees at your local airport, you will not only earn their trust but also their appreciation for having such an interest in their jobs.

3. Be careful of what you wear. In order to expedite my personal screening process, I remove all my clothes ahead of time and cover myself in saran wrap. Therefore, I have no shoes to remove and am carrying no metal objects.

4. Items are never confiscated at the checkpoints. You always have an option not to fly, so losing grandma's silver tea set, which could be used as a weapon, should not be an issue. Careful implementation of point #2 above should prevent your reaching this stage, however.

As you can see, there are a number of things that you can do to make your trip to the airport an enjoyable one. I hope that you think about some of the strategies that I have suggested and use them in your next flight.

Mike

Words we can all live by! :D

To be truthful you can never really know what it is going to be like at the airport. Most times there is a 5 minute wait. At other times it is a zoo and security is examining everybody and everything for some unexplained reason. And an hour in line is possible. To me the worst case is that you will have some nice quiet time to read at the gate for an extra hour.

Makes me want to puke. Give us a break from your rhetoric.

Give us a break from yours, and I wont have to contemplate you bent over a toilet.

See a lawyer. Your options are to dispose of the item yourself or to surrender the item to the government for disposal. Your inability to manage your time is your problem not ours. The math is pretty simple.

One of the things TSA was looking into was posting peak period waiting times on the internet to help passengers anticipate long waiting times and perhaps plan their travel accordingly. The problem is that it's not a constant factor. For example, for our shift (10:30 am - 7 pm), Saturdays are basically dead. However, for our morning shift (4 am - 1230 pm), it's their busiest day (hence the overlap of shifts). When we come in at 10:30, they're basically wrapping up a busy day for them, and because there are additional screeners available, the passenger load never overwhelms us. There are a couple "howevers." If one of the airlines has a special charter or if there's a big convention in town, then all bets are off and our Saturdays may be like our Sundays which is our busiest day of the week (ironically, Sunday mornings are the slowest day of the week for first shift).

The problem with attempting to post peak period waiting times is that there are too many dynamics involved that would, in the end, frustrate passengers and screeners alike. A standard rule-of-thumb strategy of showing up two hours early is easier.

:D :D

So if we are free to leave the line when they find prohibited items; if I put my mac-11 with 36-round 9mm clips in my carryon, and they find it, I can walk back to my car and put it in my trunk? Great.

Recall what I posted earlier, smart guy: Illegal weapons and bombs fall under a different situation, but then again, you will be dealing with a state-licensed peace officer rather than a screener in that situation.

Well, technically, a MAC-11 isn't illegal. Its just illegal to bring past a checkpoint.. In my state, its legal to have a gun on the "non-sterile" side of the checkpoint. Once you cross the checkpoint, you enter federal territory.

Just being nitpicky ;)

I have gone into a screening line and had to run back to my car before for failing to remember to remove a prohibited item before getting into line. It does happen every now and then.