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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 7:25 pm
  #16  
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This article was lousy. It implied that somehow first class isn't available to everyone. That's not true; anyone can buy a first class ticket. It's substantially more expensive, but it does include access to elite or fast-track security. It's not that complicated.

This is common practice on many airlines worldwide; it's just a benefit of flying up front.

Furthermore, now that domestic first class doesn't include much else, there had BETTER be an elite line for security! They hav e to offer us something!
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Old Aug 3, 2005 | 11:22 pm
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Originally Posted by Mats
They hav e to offer us something!
Just out of curiosity, how many FF's would NOT pay for a ticket in F if it meant they still sat in F and boarded first, but did not have access to an express line at the screening check point??
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 12:10 am
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Originally Posted by gofast
Just out of curiosity, how many FF's would NOT pay for a ticket in F if it meant they still sat in F and boarded first, but did not have access to an express line at the screening check point??
Who said anything about paying? Upgrades: Y-up, stickers, miles are not cash.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 1:31 am
  #19  
 
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Special security lines for first class, special car lanes for those who can pay the price, private criminal defense attorneys for those who can afford it. Meanwhile, the average person(soon to be the working poor) sits in traffic on the way to the airport, where after arriving, they wait in long lines to be searched. The return flight won't be much better for all those average working people having to be fly to Mexico and Canada in order to have affordable medications, which they are subject to arrest for importing their dangerous, unregulated medications; I hope they are in a district that can actually assign them an attorney - some districts can't.

Welcome to the new 2nd-class public services in a soon-to-be 3rd-world country.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 8:56 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by Aubie_NoFlyNoMore
The return flight won't be much better for all those average working people having to be fly to Mexico and Canada in order to have affordable medications, which they are subject to arrest for importing their dangerous, unregulated medications; I hope they are in a district that can actually assign them an attorney - some districts can't.
Which districts can't assign a criminal felony defendant an attorney? To not would be unconstitutional according to the Supreme Court's decision in Gideon v. Wainwright. And that was decided over 40 years ago.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 9:16 am
  #21  
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
This is one area (of many ) that I don't understand. In most situations, the customer comes first and the employees second. Here it just the opposite.

And aircraft crews don't even pay the security fee, so they should be at the end of the line.
Yeah, I agree. And we can discuss this further at the gate while our delayed plane waits for the flight crew who are stuck in the security line!
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 9:37 am
  #22  
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Originally Posted by justhere
Yeah, I agree. And we can discuss this further at the gate while our delayed plane waits for the flight crew who are stuck in the security line!
Fine by me. Nothing else seems to motivate acceleration of the screening process.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 4:10 pm
  #23  
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Originally Posted by justhere
Yeah, I agree. And we can discuss this further at the gate while our delayed plane waits for the flight crew who are stuck in the security line!
I would rather that they would be late than me. The plane leaves without me if I'm stuck in a security line.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 4:22 pm
  #24  
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Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
Fine by me. Nothing else seems to motivate acceleration of the screening process.
Well seeing as the screeners are screening and not flying, I don't see that flight crews in line would motivate the screeners and speed up anything.

Seriously, though, if the TSA had a screener whose task it was to interact with the passengers on the front side of security and educate them, then maybe things would move a little quicker. For example, if we treated screening as a business and passengers as customers (I know, novel idea ) a screener could give customers instructions prior to reaching the x-ray and WTMD thus speeding up the whole process. As it is now, at least the airports I've been in, there is really no valuable interaction until you are right there at the x-ray/WTMD. And even then, it's just the TSA employees barking out orders. Whether or not you agree with removing shoes etc., if someone was working the line and advising people to remove jackets, laptops, belts, etc., then they would at least be somewhat ready by the time they get to x-ray.

But, hey, what do I know with these pie-in-the-sky ideas
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 4:27 pm
  #25  
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Originally Posted by ND Sol
I would rather that they would be late than me. The plane leaves without me if I'm stuck in a security line.
Touch
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 4:40 pm
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Originally Posted by justhere
Well seeing as the screeners are screening and not flying, I don't see that flight crews in line would motivate the screeners and speed up anything.

Seriously, though, if the TSA had a screener whose task it was to interact with the passengers on the front side of security and educate them, then maybe things would move a little quicker. For example, if we treated screening as a business and passengers as customers (I know, novel idea ) a screener could give customers instructions prior to reaching the x-ray and WTMD thus speeding up the whole process. As it is now, at least the airports I've been in, there is really no valuable interaction until you are right there at the x-ray/WTMD. And even then, it's just the TSA employees barking out orders. Whether or not you agree with removing shoes etc., if someone was working the line and advising people to remove jackets, laptops, belts, etc., then they would at least be somewhat ready by the time they get to x-ray.

But, hey, what do I know with these pie-in-the-sky ideas
Many airports now have the pre-recorded audio/video "laptops out, boarding pass/id out, take your coat or jacket off, please remove any metal objects... blah, blah, bladedy-blah" playing as you que up for the WTMD. You'd have to be blind & deaf to not see and hear what this thing is telling you that you need to do, what is allowed and what is not allowed, etc. Yet, a great many people still get to the CP un-prepared. Why? Because the recording is ineffectual. People ignore it. Or they think it doesn't apply to them. Or they forget about the scissors and nail clippers and pistols, etc in their purses, briefcases, carryons, and so on.

The "barkers" are just repeating the same things that the recording is saying. And many people still don't get it.

That's why I'm all for the airlines continuing to support elite/F lines where possible. Most FF "know the drill" (whether we agree with it or not is another story ) and can move through the CP quickly.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 4:54 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by javajunkie
Many airports now have the pre-recorded audio/video "laptops out, boarding pass/id out, take your coat or jacket off, please remove any metal objects... blah, blah, bladedy-blah" playing as you que up for the WTMD. You'd have to be blind & deaf to not see and hear what this thing is telling you that you need to do, what is allowed and what is not allowed, etc. Yet, a great many people still get to the CP un-prepared. Why? Because the recording is ineffectual. People ignore it. Or they think it doesn't apply to them. Or they forget about the scissors and nail clippers and pistols, etc in their purses, briefcases, carryons, and so on.

The "barkers" are just repeating the same things that the recording is saying. And many people still don't get it.

That's why I'm all for the airlines continuing to support elite/F lines where possible. Most FF "know the drill" (whether we agree with it or not is another story ) and can move through the CP quickly.
Or in the case at ONT, they add rules in addition to the videos (likely produced by HQ)...such as handing the boarding pass to the TSA person acorss the WTMD. They have the video BLARING from two TV screens on the side, but the video does not mention having to take out or hand the BP to the TSA person, ergo people needing to get their bag they already shoved through x-ray back, fetch their BP, and have the bag go through x-ray again.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 8:10 pm
  #28  
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One of the first rules they taught us when I worked at the airport was that you never, ever yell at a line of people. It doesn't work. Passengers can't always hear you, the people in the back will say, "What? What did he say?" And--of course--it's rude.

The best practice is to move down the line, politely talking to passengers either as individuals or in groups. It's a whole lot quicker and much more polite.

Astute travellers notice that seasoned airline staff never yell at a line, "Who's going to Houston?" Instead, the better-trained agent will walk down the line, asking "Headed to Houston? Are you going to Houston?" It's far less confusing.

The same practice would be appropriate for the TSA. "Laptops MUST BE OUT OF BAGS!" could easily be replaced by having anyone--including the non-TSA boarding card inspectors--politely ask, "Do you have a laptop?"

Or... in an even smarter world, the TSA will abandon its delusional shoe and laptop obsessions, thereby eliminating the need entirely.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 8:22 pm
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Smile crazy

Originally Posted by Mats
Or... in an even smarter world, the TSA will abandon its delusional shoe and laptop obsessions, thereby eliminating the need entirely.
Okay, now we know that you're just crazy!
Sorry, that must be against the TOS.
Oh well, I'll enjoy my banishment.
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Old Aug 4, 2005 | 11:27 pm
  #30  
 
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Originally Posted by gofast
Just out of curiosity, how many FF's would NOT pay for a ticket in F if it meant they still sat in F and boarded first, but did not have access to an express line at the screening check point??
I would stop buying F tickets for travel to/from LAS and other airports where there are serious line problems, but a First Class only lane. At LAS, concourse "D" the lines can get very long and there is no "Elite" line, just a First Class line.

However, most airports which have an express lane allow for Elite status passengers and F passengers.

Flying a carrier such as NWA and having Plat status, there is a good chance I would get an F upgrade anyhow flying out of LAS, but with the line situation, I don't want to take that chance -- especially if I am leaving on a heavy departure day or at the end of a convention. I will purchase an actual FC ticket at a premium fare to ensure I have access to it -- if that benefit was eliminated, I wouldn't care so much.

The F fares I buy for LAS are typically advance purchase, discount F, but the fare is still more expensive, sometimes twice the price or more of an economy ticket I can buy on a carrier such as NW and have a good shot at an upgrade -- but it's guaranteed F. It's peace of mind I won't have to wait two hours in line if I'm departing on a bad, heavy traffic day.

When I last purchased an F ticket for LAS, the regular line was running between 90 minutes and 2 hours for the security checkpoint. For the FC line, I just walked up and was through in less than 5 minutes.

FWIW, in several markets there are discount F fares which are reasonable from a price standpoint. If economy is running $250, discount F is running $600, and I'm flying to/from an airport during a peak travel period, I am likely to jump for the discount F fare. While many of these discount F fares are non-refundable, some of them are changable free of charge, and the flexibility to change flights free of charge has value to me if I'm not 100% set with my schedule as well.

Let's face it, First Class is no longer a First Class product anymore as a general rule for US Domestic flights. You may get a bigger seat & free liquor, but when it comes to meals, service, etc., it's not what it used to be. Continental, FWIW, has managed to maintain a decent FC product, but on most other carriers lunch could be a cold sandwhich with no choice of meals, desserts suck, some carriers no longer provide pillows or blankets, even in F, or availability is spotty depending on flight, magazines are no longer available, and complimentary newspapers are not available upon boarding. Service has gone downhill and unless you have other reasons, there really isn't much to justify purchasing an F ticket, especially if you can easily get an upgrade on many carriers. First Class is not First Class - on most carriers, it should really be renamed "Business Class" or "Premium Economy" as there is nothing First Class about the product.

Thankfully, for international flights, products like World Business Class, BusinessElite, and BusinessFirst are good products, much better than the domestic FC offered on the respective carriers. When you go to Asian carriers, they have great Business Class products and their First Class products are true first class (try Singapore or Malaysian Airlines as examples).

Speaking of premium international, carriers like Malaysian Airlines also offer "Fast Track" immigration services to their premium passengers at participating airports (i.e. Fast Track for LHR T4) or if you enter Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, at their hub (KUL / KLIA in Sepang) you get to use special fast track & diplomatic immigration lanes; luggage for premium passengers comes off first and they'll take care of you from beginning to end. While no security short cuts with Malaysian at their hub, what they do instead is call the Premium cabins from the lounge, but they only make the call from the lounge after all economy passengers have been boarded - you then have no wait at the security checkpoint at the gate, and you board the aircraft last. Great care is taken to ensure you have room for all your carry-on baggage when board last. Two jetways are typically used, one for economy, one for First & Business. When you board, an FA personally sees you to your seat. When you land, if only one door is being used on the plane to disembark, all F & J passengers are allowed off first and economy is held back.

You pay good money, but they take care of you from the beginning of your journey with them to the end of the journey. Malaysian long-haul first, let alone business do not even measure up to First Class on domestic US carriers. International premium service on Asian carriers such as this is worth every penny.

In the end, if the few additional benefits for US domestic FC are taken away, I would never, ever, purchase a domestic FC ticket. I'll use free upgrades when I can for the extra space, but I couldn't be bothered paying for it. If upgrades were limited on cheaper tickets, I couldn't be bothered to pay more for an upgradable ticket --- unless US domestic FC provides me something of real value, which includes Fast Track at security. I personally believe airports like SDF which have no FC lane should get one; that would at least be another incentive for me to purchase an F ticket. If I buy FC, I want to be taken care of from beginning to end of journey, as some international Asian carriers do.

If the govt was smart, they would mandate an FC lane at every airport which lets FC pax jump to the front -- it won't cost the govt anything, which I should note has bailed out airlines with govt money, and in return it would another benefit to encourage people to purchase FC tix --- it's the premium passengers that make flights profitable and everything should be done to attract more premium passengers.

My 10 USD, ~5 GBP, or ~40 Malaysian Ringgits worth; The govt can keep my .02 cents.

SDF_Traveler

Last edited by SDF_Traveler; Aug 4, 2005 at 11:32 pm
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