Why do some have repeated issues with security?
#16
Join Date: Dec 2004
Programs: AA, WN RR
Posts: 3,122
Originally Posted by The Real McCoy
See, that's what I don't understand! Where the heck are these "selective" searches occurring? In all the flights I've taken since 9/11, I swear to god I've never seen anyone get selected for additional screening unless (a) their boarding pass was SSSS, (b) they failed to comply with the "rules" - such as removing jackets before going through the detector, (c) they were physically unable or unwilling to walk through the detector or (d) the detector alarmed when they walked through it.
I guess my travels may just be unique, but I am flabbergasted whenever I hear the claim on this forum that someone was "selected for secondary for absolutely no reason whatsoever". I've just never seen a TSA person just "randomly" select someone as they're going through security to get additional scrutiny.
So again, I ask, where is this happening?
I guess my travels may just be unique, but I am flabbergasted whenever I hear the claim on this forum that someone was "selected for secondary for absolutely no reason whatsoever". I've just never seen a TSA person just "randomly" select someone as they're going through security to get additional scrutiny.
So again, I ask, where is this happening?
By the way, a slightly pregnant white attorney behind me without SSSS and who did not alarm the WTMD was also selected for grope and wand treatment. So much for 4th Amendment and common sense.
#17
Join Date: May 2005
Location: MD
Programs: WorldPerks
Posts: 242
Skin color, mileage run, laptop on mileage run, little kid on mileage run, carrying multiple computers/lots of hardware, that sort of thing.
#18



Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Land of ORD
Programs: AA Plat UA Premier
Posts: 9,339
Originally Posted by GradGirl
I can't prove it of course, but I firmly believe that the reason I'm consistently singled out is that I'm a young, petite, and very curvy female.
It almost never happens in a large city airport like ORD or EWR but it occurs more than random statistics would expect in more rural areas. There are places where the locals cannot tell the difference between a Morrocan, a Mexican, an American Indian, a South Asian Indian, an Italian, a Greek, a Turk, a Russian, a Pakistani etc.
You get the picture. And yes I am offended.
Last edited by SirFlysALot; Jul 26, 2005 at 2:52 pm
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
When I haven't been given a shoe carnival retaliatory secondary, I seem to be selected because I'm a pretty non-offensive looking 50-ish white guy travelling alone, who, I guess, they figure won't put up a fuss. Maybe I'm being singled out because I fit the profile of a "sheople???" This sheople immediately starts in with the non-latex new gloves routine and reminding them about their own shoe policy.
My technique is to appear as if I'm travelling with the person immediately behind or ahead of me in line when I get within surveillance range of the moat dragon. All things being equal, that seems to have cleared up the problem for me.
It's such a game -- it's really pathetic.
My technique is to appear as if I'm travelling with the person immediately behind or ahead of me in line when I get within surveillance range of the moat dragon. All things being equal, that seems to have cleared up the problem for me.
It's such a game -- it's really pathetic.
#20
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: tucked against the Ko'olau, Windward O'ahu
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 122
From my observations during frequent interisland flights, it seems that elderly Hawaii-born Asian women are selected inordinately frequently for secondary screenings.
Anyone who is familiar with local cultures can attest that surely there's no reason to suspect these "tutus," "obaasans" and "omas" are higher-than-average security risks -- if anything, it's exactly the opposite.
Could it be because they're (generally) less likely to complain or protest (and therefore less hassle for the TSA to screen) than other pax?
Anyone who is familiar with local cultures can attest that surely there's no reason to suspect these "tutus," "obaasans" and "omas" are higher-than-average security risks -- if anything, it's exactly the opposite.
Could it be because they're (generally) less likely to complain or protest (and therefore less hassle for the TSA to screen) than other pax?
#21
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,017
Originally Posted by The Real McCoy
Perhaps I am misreading the posts in this forum, but it sounds to me like many here feel that there is a pervasive and systemic problem with the TSA. If the problem was pervasive and systemic, then I would have thought I would have witnessed it with the amount of travelling I do. I haven't.
It's my belief that there have been a few individual employees of the TSA who have over-stepped their authority to get whatever "cheap thrills" they may get out of it. However, it is also my belief that there have been a few individual FT Safety & Security posters who have over-dramatized (or perhaps even fabricated) certain encounters with TSA to get whatever "cheap thrills" they may get out of it.
It's my belief that there have been a few individual employees of the TSA who have over-stepped their authority to get whatever "cheap thrills" they may get out of it. However, it is also my belief that there have been a few individual FT Safety & Security posters who have over-dramatized (or perhaps even fabricated) certain encounters with TSA to get whatever "cheap thrills" they may get out of it.
What is and is not a pervasive and systemic problem is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps you have not witnessed it because you are a member of a priveleged ethnic and gender group? Perhaps you have not witnessed it because you're on the low end of the spectrum as far as body anxiety goes?
And here's the kicker - my horrific experiences have made me avoid flying at all costs. So how would I know if there's a pervasive and systemic problem? Just one incident caused me to rearrange my life so I don't have to find out.
#22
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by eyecue
Personality
Appearance
Power
Security
Means
Everyone's
Assessed
Rigorously
There are sheeple and there are those that stand up and complain about everything. If you want to draw attention to yourself, do so at your own risk.
People can look like they deserve more attention by the way they dress, act and talk.
Some screeners enforce things just to mess with people.
Appearance
Power
Security
Means
Everyone's
Assessed
Rigorously
There are sheeple and there are those that stand up and complain about everything. If you want to draw attention to yourself, do so at your own risk.
People can look like they deserve more attention by the way they dress, act and talk.
Some screeners enforce things just to mess with people.
Have a great day all!
#23

Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: SJC, SFO, NYC
Programs: 1K, Hertz Five Star
Posts: 1,030
I too, have never had a single bad experience with the TSA - several frustrating ones but never one where the screener(s) failed to act courteously.
I do not have a problem with the situation but I do have a strong problem when attempts are made to say that it is the right thing to do. As in other situations in life, there are compromises to be made and I will make them, as long as it is understood that this is not standard behavior that is in the spirit of American and general human behavior and decency.
And it doesn't have to be an overt acknowledgemt, just an attitude that recognizes it will suffice. I have no time for apologists who will make a case out of carefully hand-picked instances in history to validate targetted behavior towards particular classes of people.
If you say, "Tough, s*it happens - deal with it" - I'm OK with it - but don't try and get me to believe that "this will make you safer and us a greater nation under God!"
I do not have a problem with the situation but I do have a strong problem when attempts are made to say that it is the right thing to do. As in other situations in life, there are compromises to be made and I will make them, as long as it is understood that this is not standard behavior that is in the spirit of American and general human behavior and decency.
And it doesn't have to be an overt acknowledgemt, just an attitude that recognizes it will suffice. I have no time for apologists who will make a case out of carefully hand-picked instances in history to validate targetted behavior towards particular classes of people.
If you say, "Tough, s*it happens - deal with it" - I'm OK with it - but don't try and get me to believe that "this will make you safer and us a greater nation under God!"
#24
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 1,441
From a professional complainer
Take it from a professional complainer, policies that are unfair/bad/discriminatory don't get changed unless people do complain.
As has been said over and over again and I'm paraphrasing a bit, let the TSA go on with their little show, but make it consistent. I don't think we will ever be able to do away with the theater but many, many people complaining constantly TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE will help bring consistency.
Despite our so often hearing from the public that "it's o.k. as long as it makes us safer", I'm becoming convinced that there are an awful lot travelers out there who see, as we do, the waste and the uselessness, but don't have the time to write a well thought-out complaint to their congressperson or who complain to the TSA - and we all know how effective that is - who don't know who to complain to or are simply afraid to complain. Unfortunately, it will take significant numbers of people complaining before congress will listen.
Do those of you who travel for a living have enough intestinal fortitude to go to your employer and say: "I've had enough of this"? Over in OMNI there's a thread from an individual trying to hire someone willing to travel and the difficulty he/she is having finding someone willing to do so. Could it be that no one wants to take a job that requires them to endure long "security" screening lines and the possibility of public humiliation?
I once said to a board of education regarding a proposed dress code change: "I don't care if your dress code says all students must be naked, but the policy must apply to all students." (The school system had proposed that children in middle school not be allowed to wear shorts in hot weather because they were "different" than elementary school/high school students.) Many, many parents complained among themselves about the proposed new code, but I was the only one to put in writing my strong objections - and the fact that this issue made the NY Times helped a bit too.
End of rant.
As an aside, from the NY Times today:
Egyptian officials, giving their first detailed account of a deadly terrorist strike at this Red Sea resort, said Monday that all three explosions were suicide bombings and suggested that police checkpoints may have forced two of the bombers to set off their explosives early, before reaching targets packed with Western tourists. Remind you of anything?
As has been said over and over again and I'm paraphrasing a bit, let the TSA go on with their little show, but make it consistent. I don't think we will ever be able to do away with the theater but many, many people complaining constantly TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE will help bring consistency.
Despite our so often hearing from the public that "it's o.k. as long as it makes us safer", I'm becoming convinced that there are an awful lot travelers out there who see, as we do, the waste and the uselessness, but don't have the time to write a well thought-out complaint to their congressperson or who complain to the TSA - and we all know how effective that is - who don't know who to complain to or are simply afraid to complain. Unfortunately, it will take significant numbers of people complaining before congress will listen.
Do those of you who travel for a living have enough intestinal fortitude to go to your employer and say: "I've had enough of this"? Over in OMNI there's a thread from an individual trying to hire someone willing to travel and the difficulty he/she is having finding someone willing to do so. Could it be that no one wants to take a job that requires them to endure long "security" screening lines and the possibility of public humiliation?
I once said to a board of education regarding a proposed dress code change: "I don't care if your dress code says all students must be naked, but the policy must apply to all students." (The school system had proposed that children in middle school not be allowed to wear shorts in hot weather because they were "different" than elementary school/high school students.) Many, many parents complained among themselves about the proposed new code, but I was the only one to put in writing my strong objections - and the fact that this issue made the NY Times helped a bit too.
End of rant.
As an aside, from the NY Times today:
Egyptian officials, giving their first detailed account of a deadly terrorist strike at this Red Sea resort, said Monday that all three explosions were suicide bombings and suggested that police checkpoints may have forced two of the bombers to set off their explosives early, before reaching targets packed with Western tourists. Remind you of anything?
#25
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MSY
Programs: NW Gold and now Delta Gold
Posts: 3,072
i have been searched a good bit
I don't feel that a public pat down is quite the same as being ***raped, and I feel it is professional and on the up and up, but I confess to being curious when I get selected so often. You know, random means random, and if it's really random, some people will by chance get passed by every time and others will get more searches than average. It could be nothing more than that. Doesn't seem worth getting my panties in a bunch. In most cases, the agents are trying to do an unpleasant job to the best of their ability.
Originally Posted by The Real McCoy
In reading this forum, it seems that some people are just repeatedly singled out and A** raped in full public view everytime they move with 3 miles of any airport in the United States.
Other, like me, have basically never had any difficulties with security.
Why is that? Are some people just more sensitive to security screenings than others? Do some people bring scrutiny on themselves by their words, actions or travel habits? Do some people just naturally "look suspicious" and peak the interest of TSA?
I don't travel as much as some folks, but I've probably had 25 roundtrip flights, with connection, in the past year. The only time I've gotten SSSS is when I purchased one-way tickets. I thought it was a foolish selection criteria, but the actual screening wasn't really a big deal.
I've never been selected for additional screening when the metal detector didn't alarm. Sometime when it did alarm it was my own fault for being forgetful (or still asleep for a 6:00 am flight) and leaving a cellphone in my pocket or something stupid like that. In those cases, TSA allowed me to remove the offending item and walk through the detector again... no secondary.
Why have others had such horrible experiences - repeatedly - while I never have?
Other, like me, have basically never had any difficulties with security.
Why is that? Are some people just more sensitive to security screenings than others? Do some people bring scrutiny on themselves by their words, actions or travel habits? Do some people just naturally "look suspicious" and peak the interest of TSA?
I don't travel as much as some folks, but I've probably had 25 roundtrip flights, with connection, in the past year. The only time I've gotten SSSS is when I purchased one-way tickets. I thought it was a foolish selection criteria, but the actual screening wasn't really a big deal.
I've never been selected for additional screening when the metal detector didn't alarm. Sometime when it did alarm it was my own fault for being forgetful (or still asleep for a 6:00 am flight) and leaving a cellphone in my pocket or something stupid like that. In those cases, TSA allowed me to remove the offending item and walk through the detector again... no secondary.
Why have others had such horrible experiences - repeatedly - while I never have?
#26
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: MSY
Programs: NW Gold and now Delta Gold
Posts: 3,072
eh, and I'm a petite, curvy, old female, so what
I don't believe anyone is getting their jollies. Now, I am a little shy myself and I don't look people in the eye when I speak. So maybe I look suspicious for that reason. But the women doing the patdown are not getting a thrill out of this, and any male TSA officers in the area are usually busy doing their own jobs. It is well within your rights to ask for a private patdown if you prefer, but in my humble view, I think if I am patted down in public, there is absolutely no chance of misbehavior. And it saves me time. So I prefer to be screened in public.
To each her own, but I don't accept that women are by nature fragile wilting flowers who run screaming in fear when subject to a professional search. We are the gender that gets annual Pap smears. We're strong. We'll do what it takes to stay healthy and safe.
I'll give you one clue: On the street, all women get whistled at and catcalled. I hate to say, get over yourself, but will admit that it's the first phrase that sprung to mind.
To each her own, but I don't accept that women are by nature fragile wilting flowers who run screaming in fear when subject to a professional search. We are the gender that gets annual Pap smears. We're strong. We'll do what it takes to stay healthy and safe.
I'll give you one clue: On the street, all women get whistled at and catcalled. I hate to say, get over yourself, but will admit that it's the first phrase that sprung to mind.
Originally Posted by GradGirl
Great question, Real McCoy. I can't prove it of course, but I firmly believe that the reason I'm consistently singled out is that I'm a young, petite, and very curvy female. It would be nice to think there aren't ulterior motives behind the fact that male screeners select me to be touched and humiliated within their (the male screeners') line of sight, but let's be realistic. On the street I get catcalled and whistled at, and in the airport I get secondarily searched.
I absolutely do not dress provocatively and I am extremely shy about strangers touching me. Am I really so unusual in that? I think that being forced to endure total strangers touching our bodies in sensitive places has a much deeper psychological impact on women than it does on most men. Not to mention the fact that men's private areas are not supposed to be touched during screening, but women's private areas (over, under, and in between breasts) are fair game if the wand beeps.
I try not to let these guys get their jollies, by insisting that my search be conducted in a private area. I feel all subjective and secretive criteria for secondary search should be ended, to eliminate the possibility of folks abusing their positions of power. If you beep or if you get a flag, that's one thing, but letting a man in a uniform dictate that *you* are the one he wants searched, without giving any reason, is just asking for trouble.
I absolutely do not dress provocatively and I am extremely shy about strangers touching me. Am I really so unusual in that? I think that being forced to endure total strangers touching our bodies in sensitive places has a much deeper psychological impact on women than it does on most men. Not to mention the fact that men's private areas are not supposed to be touched during screening, but women's private areas (over, under, and in between breasts) are fair game if the wand beeps.
I try not to let these guys get their jollies, by insisting that my search be conducted in a private area. I feel all subjective and secretive criteria for secondary search should be ended, to eliminate the possibility of folks abusing their positions of power. If you beep or if you get a flag, that's one thing, but letting a man in a uniform dictate that *you* are the one he wants searched, without giving any reason, is just asking for trouble.
Last edited by peachfront; Jul 26, 2005 at 6:10 pm Reason: can't spell
#27
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: USA
Posts: 1,017
Originally Posted by peachfront
To each her own, but I don't accept that women are by nature fragile wilting flowers who run screaming in fear when subject to a professional search. We are the gender that gets annual Pap smears. We're strong. We'll do what it takes to stay healthy and safe.
I'll give you one clue: On the street, all women get whistled at and catcalled. I hate to say, get over yourself, but will admit that it's the first phrase that sprung to mind.
I'll give you one clue: On the street, all women get whistled at and catcalled. I hate to say, get over yourself, but will admit that it's the first phrase that sprung to mind.
#28


Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: ORD, CDG
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 133
Originally Posted by GradGirl
Great question, Real McCoy. I can't prove it of course, but I firmly believe that the reason I'm consistently singled out is that I'm a young, petite, and very curvy female. It would be nice to think there aren't ulterior motives behind the fact that male screeners select me to be touched and humiliated within their (the male screeners') line of sight, but let's be realistic. On the street I get catcalled and whistled at, and in the airport I get secondarily searched.
I absolutely do not dress provocatively and I am extremely shy about strangers touching me. Am I really so unusual in that? I think that being forced to endure total strangers touching our bodies in sensitive places has a much deeper psychological impact on women than it does on most men. Not to mention the fact that men's private areas are not supposed to be touched during screening, but women's private areas (over, under, and in between breasts) are fair game if the wand beeps.
I try not to let these guys get their jollies, by insisting that my search be conducted in a private area. I feel all subjective and secretive criteria for secondary search should be ended, to eliminate the possibility of folks abusing their positions of power. If you beep or if you get a flag, that's one thing, but letting a man in a uniform dictate that *you* are the one he wants searched, without giving any reason, is just asking for trouble.
I absolutely do not dress provocatively and I am extremely shy about strangers touching me. Am I really so unusual in that? I think that being forced to endure total strangers touching our bodies in sensitive places has a much deeper psychological impact on women than it does on most men. Not to mention the fact that men's private areas are not supposed to be touched during screening, but women's private areas (over, under, and in between breasts) are fair game if the wand beeps.
I try not to let these guys get their jollies, by insisting that my search be conducted in a private area. I feel all subjective and secretive criteria for secondary search should be ended, to eliminate the possibility of folks abusing their positions of power. If you beep or if you get a flag, that's one thing, but letting a man in a uniform dictate that *you* are the one he wants searched, without giving any reason, is just asking for trouble.
I must disagree with that hypothesis. I am a very shy, 22 year old female, 59, blond, blue eyed, and about 125. In over 50 flights in the last 2 years I have never been seconded on US soil unless I beeped (I went through a stage of traveling with a pair of pants containing numerous large metal buckles) and when I did beep, a female conducted the secondary search in each case. I dont believe that the men of the TSA are out there to get their jollies off of good looking young women.
As a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago, when flying out of LAS, I was sent to the secondary line. I went through the bomb stiffing machine (not sure the name) and went through the metal detector. When it came time to do the secondary search, the TSA agent noticed my ticket wasnt SSSS, apologized for the inconvenience, and sent me through without a second thought. I got through the line in a matter of seconds, when the main line was at least 45 minutes delayed.
I personally believe people go looking for trouble, and get it.
#29
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 376
Originally Posted by GradGirl
Yes, Peachfront, to each her own. You are not a fragile wilting flower, but I am, and I don't really think that I should have to accept strangers forcibly palpating my breasts in a public place. Until this sexist nonsense stops, I'll continue to cry foul. Why are breasts fair game but scrotums off limits for touching? I'll give you three guesses.
You have got some serious issues. Wilting flower? palpating breasts in public? Put down the Harlequin romance novel and go bowling. The TSA has more important things to do than to play into your imaginative scenario of the helpless wilting flower being manhandled by the chiseled TSA screener from the bad side of the tracks. My advice, go Greyhound!Have a great day all.
#30
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
Originally Posted by hiltonhead
You have got some serious issues. Wilting flower? palpating breasts in public? Put down the Harlequin romance novel and go bowling. The TSA has more important things to do than to play into your imaginative scenario of the helpless wilting flower being manhandled by the chiseled TSA screener from the bad side of the tracks. My advice, go Greyhound!Have a great day all.


