mapsgl

Going JFK to LAX today. Fortunately I arrived early and the elite line was open. My carry on tested positve.

TSA Agent checks with a device that has a paperlike tip. Three false positves, two machine cleanings, one hand bag search, one body search.

They ask for my BP and my ID saying they need to record my information.

I can't get a clear answer on what this (my personal) information is used for, where it is stored and for how long.

Can I expect "extra attention" on my next few flights ?

I'd appreciate any insight/asssitance

maps

miizzles

This thread may be helpful.

Bart

I take it that your bag underwent explosives trace detection sampling. Can you describe your bag and what you typically use it for? Typical alarms are caused by grass fertilizer, certain hand lotions and heart medication. Also, if someone else handled your bag, something they had on them could have also caused the alarm. The explosives trace detection machine did not fail; it definitely detected an element associated with explosives. However, this same element, when combined with something else, could be quite harmless. For example, glycerin and its derivatives are typically found in hand lotions and other skin care products. Mix glycerin with nitro, and you have a completely different product. Same goes with nitro and its derivatives. Harmless uses can be found in grass fertilizer and heart medication. When mixed with other elements, it's the basis for many explosives as well.

The TSA supervisor followed correct procedure. After the first alarm, he had the ETD machine cleaned to make sure that the alarm wasn't caused by something residual already on the sampling tray perhaps left behind by a previous alarm or previous sample. The upper torso pat-down is standard procedure for resolving the alarm. I assume from your post that your bag continued to alarm, which resulted in an even more thorough bag search. Again, this is standard procedure.

The supervisor should have explained why it was necessary to record your name. The answer is quite simple: he needs to account for each and every alarm; he also needs to record what was done to resolve the alarm. Without your personal information, he is unable to satisfy his reporting requirements. Failure on your part to provide this information will result in you being denied passage through the checkpoint. It's a matter of accountability, and if you refuse to cooperate, then the supervisor is unable to clear the alarm. The airlines will deny your boarding, and you will be escorted out of the checkpoint. Nothing sinister here; however, the supervisor should have explained all of this to you.

Contrary to popular belief, your name does not go into a master databank for situations such as these. Whatever was inside your bag will determine whether or not you'll undergo additional ETD screening in the future.

Just to give you an idea of how accurate these machines are, a diaper bag belonging to a young mom travelling alone with her infant alarmed with a strong hit for C4 military explosives. This is a pretty rare alarm. As I explained above, not every "hit" for nitro necessarily means the item is an explosive; however, C4 means ONLY C4; there is nothing else that can be mistaken for it. The diaper bag was exactly that: a diaper bag, and there was absolutely nothing suspicious about the contents of the bag. Yet we had another strong hit for C4. Further questioning revealed that the lady's husband had packed the bag for her the night before.

He's an explosive technician assigned to an EOD unit at Fort Sam Houston.

AArlington

Bart- thanks for the explanation. Can you elaborate more on this?

Did he pack C4 in the bag ?

meiji

I got the same at LHR a few years ago (high levels of TNT for me). The search was complicated due to the electronics I was carrying (chips, boards etc) but no single item in the bag (or the bag itself) returned a positive so clearly it was the combination of items that did it. Searches on me haven't increased in severity (although I get every "random" search anyway) and I'm not subjected to any extra harassment.

Bart

There's a belief, apparently, that names are recorded and placed in some central database in situations such as alarming the ETD machine. This simply is not true. We have no clue as to whether or not you previously alarmed the ETD or if you're on some sort of watch list. We have no input to such matters nor do we receive any information. Yet there are people who are absolutely convinced that we will put you on some sort of watch list if you alarm the ETD, get into an argument with a screener or are caught with a pocketknife in your carry-on. This is just not the case.

LOL. Pretty impressive technology, eh?

BDLORD

Great post, very informative.
Thanks,
Jon

PTravel

With all due respect, it sounds most sinister. Though I appreciate your explanation, it is no more nor less than, "We have to record your personal information because we have to record your personal information." Why is this information needed? What is done with it? Remember, you've cleared the person -- by definition, he's transporting nothing he shouldn't and has done nothing wrong. Why should his name now be linked to, "caused explosives alarm at airport"?

I'm old enough to remember Nixon's enemies list, and the "coincidence" of IRS tax audits for those on it as well as other unpleasantness. TSA has a security interest in matching passengers to ID. It has none in probing for personal information for passengers that it has already cleared as not presenting a security risk.

I understand that you're just following orders. Those orders, however, are wrong.

ramraideruk

I did encounter a similar problem whilst having my bag tested. The TSA agent said that my bag had traces of explosive on it. However, he said that this was quite normal and let me go!

mapsgl

First of all thanks for the detailed response.

To answer your questions. It's a medium size duffle that I use only for air travel. Usually keep Toilietry Bag w/ meds, A bottle of water, book, travel pillow, earphones, eye mask and food. (The 6 hr flight btw JFK and LAX is no fun on an empty stomach!)

The bag only sees my closet at home/hotel, and the trunk of the car service to/from the airport.

I will check to see if my skin care lotion (glycerin???) is the culprit. Although I have traveled with it before and no problem.

I understand the need to record the event. What I haven't been able to ascertain is what happens with my personal information, how long that information is retained, and how/when it's removed.

Maybe I will place the skin care lotion in checked baggage on my return

FliesWay2Much

If the TSA cared a rat's eyelash about complying with the law of the land -- in this case, the Privacy Act of 1974, as amended -- you would have been told all of this, and more, in writing.

Bart

LOL. Ja wohl, mein Herr!

Apparently, there's nothing I can say or do to convince you that there's nothing sinister behind this. Yes, the passenger is cleared; however, we are subject to quality control checks to make sure that we cleared the passenger by following the correct procedure. The part you fail to see is that this really works more against the hapless TSA supervisor should an unfortunate incident occur. The first thing that will happen is that all of the ETD records will be reviewed to see if correct procedures were followed. The name on the blame line is NOT the passenger's but the TSA supervisor's. I am sure that supervisors would be quite relieved if they didn't have to record any personal information because that would take them off the hook. It would simply be a matter of their word against whatever accusation or inquiry is made that procedures were followed correctly.

The part you don't see is that when these audits are made, the supervisor is called on the carpet for failing to properly fill out these forms. I have some supervisors who are absolutely paranoid about this and insist on filling out the forms themselves. Others are comfortable with me and allow me to fill the forms out and just brief them upon their arrival.

Bart

Ahhh, shucks. Not quite the explanation I would use. LOL. Makes it sound like we know you have explosives but are letting you go because we couldn't find them. But then again, not that many TSA supervisors know how to correctly interpret the ETD printout. A properly trained supervisor can tell just by glancing at the printout sheet whether or not it's the real deal. Don't ask me why this is the case, but there you have it.

(I was a supervisor with the private contract company prior to TSA taking over.)

Bart

Glycerin and nitro are the more common culprits. Walking on a freshly fertilized lawn is enough to trip the alarm depending on factors such as touching your shoes, placing the shoes inside your bag (a common issue with golf bags) or someone else who had contact in such a manner who happened to handle your bag (e.g. a relative or friend who drops you off at the airport and handles your bag, etc.). While this may be inconvenient for you, the important thing is that WE know what it is NOT more than what it IS.

Bart

You make a valid point. One of the things that surprises me is that there isn't at least a separate Privacy Act of 1974 sheet that we could hand to passengers in such situations. I don't know if this is something that the TSA lawyers haven't thought about or if they expect supervisors to follow through with the correct procedure but don't realize that it's largely ignored. All I know is that when I used to be much more involved in these sort of issues in my capacity as a military investigator, the PA 1974 sheet was one of the mandatory pieces of papers we needed in our little packet.