Modest Proposal
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: Lifetime Gold UA and AA
Posts: 163
Modest Proposal
I recently returned from an overseas trip, where I noted that the baggage scanning personnel appeared to take just as long to stare at the carry-on scanner as the TSA personnel do in the US, but there were no noticeable lines. As I had plenty of time before my flight, I watched for a while to see how this could be done. The very simple answer has resulted in a modest proposal to improve flight service in this country and to reduce or eliminate the lines.
My proposal is simple. Within nine months, require all airlines to present all baggage for claim within ten(10) minutes of the aircraft reaching the gate. Within 12 months, restrict the carry on of any bag over 7 kg (anything bigger than a briefcase or purse).
The airlines would have to hire more baggage handlers, but could make up for this revenue through their ability to turn aircraft much more quickly. Many overseas flights turn in 30 minutes. Boarding, and particularly disembarcation, was MUCH faster without all the carry on luggage.
I am personally a "maximum carry-on" guy. However, I would gladly forego this "right" if my bags were presented within ten minutes, as they are overseas, and obn Southwest here, in order to avoid the lines at TSA.
Comments?
My proposal is simple. Within nine months, require all airlines to present all baggage for claim within ten(10) minutes of the aircraft reaching the gate. Within 12 months, restrict the carry on of any bag over 7 kg (anything bigger than a briefcase or purse).
The airlines would have to hire more baggage handlers, but could make up for this revenue through their ability to turn aircraft much more quickly. Many overseas flights turn in 30 minutes. Boarding, and particularly disembarcation, was MUCH faster without all the carry on luggage.
I am personally a "maximum carry-on" guy. However, I would gladly forego this "right" if my bags were presented within ten minutes, as they are overseas, and obn Southwest here, in order to avoid the lines at TSA.
Comments?
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2001
Location: LAX; AA EXP, MM; HH Gold
Posts: 31,789

Yeah, that'll happen. Too much chance of airline employee/TSA employee theft for me to go along with a 16 pound limit. No thanks.
Airlines would hire more people? And pay them in what? Most of them are broke (or going broke). Even WN and B6 are not selling tickets at high enough fares to cover their costs (with fuel hedges making up the difference at both).
What, exactly, will the government do for me when the 10 minute limit is violated?
What will the government do for me when my bag doesn't arrive at all? See USAir's current PAWOB numbers; it's not a rare occurence.
No thanks. Now is the time for less government involvement, not more.
#4


Join Date: Apr 2005
Programs: Delta SkyMiles
Posts: 654
Originally Posted by whirledtraveler
I have checked bags twice in the past two years. Both times they were damaged.
Here's my modification to the proposal: limit carry-ons, and require every crew member to check their bags (I noticed that this appears to be standard practice with Lufthansa crews), with no special "crew" tags. That way, the luggage that the baggage handlers might be that of their co-workers, and I think they might handle it more gently.
Of course, this ain't gonna happen, either.
#5
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Louisville, KY, US
Programs: QF Plat - OW EMD | DL Gold / Starwood Gold
Posts: 6,106
Interesting idea, but it would never work.
First and foremost, the airlines cannot afford to hire additonal baggage staff. As it stands there are currently some serious union problems between baggage workers and the air carriers. As I understand things, AS just fired all of their baggage staff at SEA at 3am and brought in new employees. The AS baggage staff out outlaying stations are conducting work-slow downs and causing havoc through-out their system to protest the SEA firing.
Secondly, this doesn't address theft or the potential that someone may introduce something into your luggage. As it stands we can't lock luggage with the TSA and this is a serious problem, especially for those who travel overseas to airports where theft is a problem or airports in countries where drugs being inserted into ones luggage can result in the death penalty. Even "TSA approved" locks get cut at times - $10 a pop, but luckily Brookstone has been good at replacing them for me even though the lock isn't always put back in my suitcase.
Until we can lock luggage and know our belongings will be secure, people will continue to not check luggage.
Third, lost luggage / misplaced luggage will always be a problem. The more checked luggage the more luggage that goes walk-about. Sometimes this occurs because of irregular operations (i.e. flight cancellations, re-routes), other times this happens because of sloppy and slow luggage handling. When I check luggage via AMS and interline it between NW & KL or NW & MA, it's always a miracle when it does make it.
The last time I interlined luggage between Malev and Northwest at AMS, my luggage was walkabout for a week. I was flying Budapest-Amsterdam-Boston. No luggage at BOS. I had business to take care of in BOS and then flew to SDF the next day. The baggage first had to be sent to BOS once located at AMS. By the time it arrived at BOS it had to overnight there and was sent out to SDF the next day where I was. By the time the luggage reached me, I was ready to depart for another trip.
When I fly NW to AMS and connect onto BCN with KL, my checked luggage makes it less than 50% of the time, even with a 2-3 hour connection. I then must file paperwork at BCN and wait until the evening for the baggage to be delivered to my hotel or bed & breakfast - sometimes it overnights at AMS is flown to BCN and is then delivered the following day.
If we look at checked luggage within the US, when I travel via ORD with UAx I almost always run into irregular operations because of weather or ATC delays. It is a miracle when my luggage makes to the destination with me. If returning to SDF, I often just go to the airport to pick my luggage up because UAx is so slow at delivery. When the baggage does arrive I go to the airport on my dime and typically grab it out of a large "unsecure" pile in the baggage claim area, which anyone could grab and walk off with. When my luggage doesn't arrive via UAx/ORD, I try to be the first at the UAx counter because I usually end up with 25+ passengers behind me in line. I now avoid ORD and UAx unless absolutely necessary - which is sad because ORD is a great airport and offers many excellent international connections.
Nuff ranting about walkabout luggage, but this is a big issue for me.
As far as overseas flights turning in 30 minutes, I suspect you're talking about shorter intra-European flights. Some European LCC like EasyJet and Ryanair do have short turns like WN because they fly small planes (737s) and follow the WN model in many respects. Even 'legacy' carriers like KLM which fly primarily 737s within Europe have quick turns on many routes.
For true long-haul international flights which last anywhere between 12 hours to 16 hours in duration, it is simply not possible to do a 30 minute turn on a 777 or Boeing 747-400 (aircraft likely to fly 14+ hr routes). Even for short flights on the 777 or 747-400 short turns are not possible, but can be done in some markets depending on the level security. PPBM, positive passenger bag matching, will slow the process on a large aircraft which uses containers in the cargo hold. If someone doesn't board, it also means taking a delay for removal of luggage. Many factors come into play when it comes to aircraft turns.
Last - many airlines can't even get luggage tagged priority off first. If flying a US carrier in a premium class of service, chances are they'll get it off priority at the hub for immigrations and customs, but once you re-check it that priorty tag often means little upon arrival at final destination. However, several overseas airlines are able to get this correct when flying J or F.
Until then, I use my full size roll-a-board and carry on a backpack. Roll-a-board goes up above, backpack goes under seat in front (unless in bulkhead) and when INTL I often have duty free on top of that (goes overhead).
SDF_Traveler
First and foremost, the airlines cannot afford to hire additonal baggage staff. As it stands there are currently some serious union problems between baggage workers and the air carriers. As I understand things, AS just fired all of their baggage staff at SEA at 3am and brought in new employees. The AS baggage staff out outlaying stations are conducting work-slow downs and causing havoc through-out their system to protest the SEA firing.
Secondly, this doesn't address theft or the potential that someone may introduce something into your luggage. As it stands we can't lock luggage with the TSA and this is a serious problem, especially for those who travel overseas to airports where theft is a problem or airports in countries where drugs being inserted into ones luggage can result in the death penalty. Even "TSA approved" locks get cut at times - $10 a pop, but luckily Brookstone has been good at replacing them for me even though the lock isn't always put back in my suitcase.
Until we can lock luggage and know our belongings will be secure, people will continue to not check luggage.
Third, lost luggage / misplaced luggage will always be a problem. The more checked luggage the more luggage that goes walk-about. Sometimes this occurs because of irregular operations (i.e. flight cancellations, re-routes), other times this happens because of sloppy and slow luggage handling. When I check luggage via AMS and interline it between NW & KL or NW & MA, it's always a miracle when it does make it.
The last time I interlined luggage between Malev and Northwest at AMS, my luggage was walkabout for a week. I was flying Budapest-Amsterdam-Boston. No luggage at BOS. I had business to take care of in BOS and then flew to SDF the next day. The baggage first had to be sent to BOS once located at AMS. By the time it arrived at BOS it had to overnight there and was sent out to SDF the next day where I was. By the time the luggage reached me, I was ready to depart for another trip.
When I fly NW to AMS and connect onto BCN with KL, my checked luggage makes it less than 50% of the time, even with a 2-3 hour connection. I then must file paperwork at BCN and wait until the evening for the baggage to be delivered to my hotel or bed & breakfast - sometimes it overnights at AMS is flown to BCN and is then delivered the following day.
If we look at checked luggage within the US, when I travel via ORD with UAx I almost always run into irregular operations because of weather or ATC delays. It is a miracle when my luggage makes to the destination with me. If returning to SDF, I often just go to the airport to pick my luggage up because UAx is so slow at delivery. When the baggage does arrive I go to the airport on my dime and typically grab it out of a large "unsecure" pile in the baggage claim area, which anyone could grab and walk off with. When my luggage doesn't arrive via UAx/ORD, I try to be the first at the UAx counter because I usually end up with 25+ passengers behind me in line. I now avoid ORD and UAx unless absolutely necessary - which is sad because ORD is a great airport and offers many excellent international connections.
Nuff ranting about walkabout luggage, but this is a big issue for me.
As far as overseas flights turning in 30 minutes, I suspect you're talking about shorter intra-European flights. Some European LCC like EasyJet and Ryanair do have short turns like WN because they fly small planes (737s) and follow the WN model in many respects. Even 'legacy' carriers like KLM which fly primarily 737s within Europe have quick turns on many routes.
For true long-haul international flights which last anywhere between 12 hours to 16 hours in duration, it is simply not possible to do a 30 minute turn on a 777 or Boeing 747-400 (aircraft likely to fly 14+ hr routes). Even for short flights on the 777 or 747-400 short turns are not possible, but can be done in some markets depending on the level security. PPBM, positive passenger bag matching, will slow the process on a large aircraft which uses containers in the cargo hold. If someone doesn't board, it also means taking a delay for removal of luggage. Many factors come into play when it comes to aircraft turns.
Last - many airlines can't even get luggage tagged priority off first. If flying a US carrier in a premium class of service, chances are they'll get it off priority at the hub for immigrations and customs, but once you re-check it that priorty tag often means little upon arrival at final destination. However, several overseas airlines are able to get this correct when flying J or F.
Until then, I use my full size roll-a-board and carry on a backpack. Roll-a-board goes up above, backpack goes under seat in front (unless in bulkhead) and when INTL I often have duty free on top of that (goes overhead).
SDF_Traveler
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
Posts: 19,809
Originally Posted by dsweet
...require all airlines to present all baggage for claim within ten(10) minutes of the aircraft reaching the gate... restrict the carry on of any bag over 7 kg... I would gladly forego this "right" if my bags were presented within ten minutes, as they are overseas, and on Southwest here, in order to avoid the lines at TSA.
Comments?
Comments?
There's no way to compel timely baggage delivery.
Throwing more people at a bad system doesn't make it a faster system.
10 minutes from gate to carousel? It takes twice as long to get all the PEOPLE off a full 757-300; baggage in half the time will never happen. (And at airports with outlier concourses or satellites like ATL or DEN, 10-minute delivery would be a physical impossibility.)
The high risk of theft, loss or damage in checked-baggage systems would lead many people to drive rather than fly when feasible, costing the airlines revenue.
A 7kg carry-on limit would lead to full airplanes taking off with half-full bins, making business pax angry at being inconvenienced/delayed because of another stupid government regulation.
Baggage overseas is not usually "presented within ten minutes" -- never hung around LHR on a foggy day, I guess. You've just been lucky.
If current carry-on limits were properly enforced by airline gate agents there would be no problem. The last thing this industry needs is more government meddling in the form of genuinely unenforceable mandates that make everyone madder than they are already.
The day a 7kg carry-on limit is imposed is the day I buy fractional ownership in a Madden-cruiser.

