VideoPaul

This airplane has an empty weight of 1,000 pounds without people, oil or fuel. That leaves 600 pounds. If you have one 180 pound pilot youhave 420 pounds left. If you fill the thing FULL of fuel , 26 gallons at 6 pounds per gallon, that's 156 pounds. That leaves you about 250 pounds (factor in oil as well) for tools of terror. Nope, that wouldn't do a whole hell of a lot at all. But you would need several gallons of paint.

--Paul

SDF_Traveler

Well the "experts" at Faux News, The Official Homeland Newstation (tm), are saying it should have been shot down immediately the second time it strayed towards DC airspace.

I don't think we'll get the fully story for awhile - if at all, but apparently the plane started heading towards central DC, then turned away, then turned back, and then turned away with escort after the F-16's fired two flares.

Apparently when the plane was ~10 miles out DC went to "Orange" then as it got closer, it went to "Red", then a few minutes later it went back to "Yellow".

Apparently this high wing Cessna was about 3-4 miles from the Capitol Building and the White House. No idea if it strayed (lost pilot), pilot didn't know what he was doing, or what the case is - can only speculate - but I'm sure more will be released sooner or later.

Pilot is officially under "Arrest" according to Faux News Alert.

SDF_Traveler

Doppy

If this was a distraction to allow a ground assault, wouldn't telling everyone to run outside be the wrong move? Look at the pictures of the people rushing out of office buildings.

A couple terrorists with legally purchased "assault" weapons could have been waiting to mow them down. If you're afraid that the air threat could be a distraction so that you can do something in the streets, why would you send everyone rushing into the streets?

VideoPaul

Now speaking as a licensed pilot with hundreds of hours in the air, I will tell you that this guy damn near got shot down, ignored everything he is supposed to know to get his ticket in the first place, and should lose his ticket for good. He ignored multiple attempts to get hold of him, ignored several intercept attempts, and apparently finally started paying attention when they shot flares across his line of sight.

I consider him very, very, very lucky to be alive at this point. When I fly, I maintain a listening watch on 121.5, the emergency feequency at ALL times and check the raido to make sure it is still working every 15 minutes. I have a little laminated card next to me that gives the intercept procedures in case I forget in the momentary panic of an F-16 paying a visit. This person is a wholly irresponsible pilot, has given the rest of the aviation community nursing yet another black eye, and I agree that blowing his out of the damn sky would have indeed improved the GA gene pool.

--Paul

frequentfoulup

This person should not be allowed to pilot a plane again. He or she will no doubt be punished somehow, but shooting down the plane is a knee jerk response. What about collateral damage? What if the flaming hulk crashes into a full school building?

We assume the worst case scenario, because the downside is huge. Most likely the pilot just had no sense at all, so don't let him up in the skies by himself again.

Also, just out of curiousity why send f-16's to escort if their stall speed is 1/2 of the cessna's max speed? Why not Cobra's or Apache's?

LessO2

Most of us know how slow The Government works. All the facts and figures about the plane, where it took off, flight plan, etc., I sincerely doubt the boys in the F-16s were so enlightened at the split-second deployment.

First time in the restricted airspace, shake them up, steer them away. Second time, I'm sorry, but they should have shot the plane down.

We can argue about plane's contents, whatever. But whoever this guy was, I agree with Paul, he's VERY lucky to be alive.

L1011toHNL

It's absolutely no fun to run for your life with little or no information. I was in the Capitol at work in the Senate when the police began franticly shouting for everyone to get out. At first it sounded like a fight or disturbance in the corridors outside the Chamber. Then they burst in yelling for us to go. We ran. Get outside and had to dodge the armored Suburbans speeding leadership away. Heard, then spied, the F-16 banking hard over Union Station. The Capitol cops with their huge assault shotguns are running around screaming to run faster. An elderly lady had a heart attack near one of the office buildings, and was being carried by staffers away from the scene. People fell in the scramble. Why? All because a Cessna happens to make his way somewhere he doesn't belong. This crap has to stop. They need to blow one of these people out of the sky to get anyone approaching Washington to be a little more responsible. I got my information by using the Nextel direct connect to family outside of the metro area, asking them to turn on national news. Utter chaos. All in a day's work? This sucks.

Good thing Fiji's only 2 weeks away!

bocastephen

As a commercial pilot myself, I have to agree with Paul here....this guy needs his license pulled, a hefty civil penalty, and a verbal thrashing from the local FAA FSDO.

The prohibited airspace zones were in effect over these buildings long before 9/11, so 9/11 aside, there is no reason why anyone could ever think it's ok to fly around within prohibited airspace. To think you can do it post-9/11 just means you are really braindead.

We will be lucky if the boneheads in Congress don't jump on this event as another chance to curtail or ban general aviation.

He is lucky he wasn't shot down. However, I believe the questions about an instant-shootdown in the event of an aircraft entering this airspace have now been answered.

roundtheworld

I think the real culprit is the USCP. Panick and shouting does not help, and only creates chaos. What they did was shouting fire in a full theater. i have no respect for the idiots trying to mimik Rambo. Though to their defence it was probably a communication error. They were probably told and wircraft is flying towards the Capitol, without indication of size and real danger. People would have been safer to stay inside or in the basement.

In any case, on Sept. 11, someone came to our conference room saying a plane had hit the WTC. At that time I thought: What an idiot, these terrorists, flying a Cessna into the WTC, not much damage there ... well I was worng but I didn't panic. Same thing here if they would give more information everyone can understand the real risk much better.

GeneralAviation

Gee, you guys are strict! Granted, the pilot may not have the navigating skills of Charles Lindbergh or one of the Navy's Blue Angels, but shooting him out of the sky, and killing him for being lost, or for being careless, sounds a bit extreme to me! Do any of you remember what happened in D.C. last June, a day or two before President Reagan's funeral? A plane carrying the Governor of Kentucky, his family, and others was flying into Reagan/National Airport and came close to the Capitol building. The plane's transponder was malfunctioning, and the order came to evacuate the Capitol building. If I remember correctly, people were told to remove their shoes so they could run faster! Panic and pandemonium ensued for awhile. Would you all have wanted the plane shot down in this case, resulting in the death of Kentucky's first family? Paranoia and fear can destroy you if you let it.

I understand the pilot in today's incident was enroute to North Carolina.
Supposedly, he was lost and yes, pilots should be aware of the many
restrictions in and around Washington, but there should be a better way
to handle situations like this without resorting to shooting down planes
or needlessly panicking the populace. What about planes that fly near
nuclear power plants, military bases, sporting events, etc.....should they
be blasted from the sky? Lovely country we're evolving into, isn't it?
Perhaps a couple of fighters should fly Combat Air Patrols over Washington
like they did after September 11th.....at least they could VISUALLY identify a Cessna 150.

Interesting that you mentioned CIA headquarters....didn't some
Islamic terrorists jump out of a car and blast away at a row
of CIA employees lined up in their cars back in the 1990's? Greg

tazi

Duct and cover!!!!

The Candyland color-coded terror alert system was RED for 8 minutes!

bocastephen

I think we were saying he is lucky he wasn't shot down....I certainly dont think he should have been, given one has to factor in the potential for injury or death on the ground as well.

Anyway, if their skills were that rusty, they should have charted a course well away from the DC area to avoid the chance of a mishap.

new article

Doppy

Ahem.. I believe you mean Elmo:
http://www.geekandproud.net/terror/

L1011toHNL

Hmm. The article is different from what cnn is reporting:

"The plane was taken from an airport in Smoketown, Pennsylvania," said Capitol Police Chief Terry Gainer.

Two people were taken into custody, he said. "They were not authorized to take the plane from the airport -- but in fact did."

GeneralAviation

There's another interesting article posted on the web site of
The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association at www.aopa.org

"A Cessna 150 based at Smoketown Airport in Pennsylvania
strayed into prohibited airspace over Washington, D.C.,
today, causing evacuations of the White House, Capitol,
and Supreme Court."

"The airplane reportedly flew into restricted airspace, then
returned. It was escorted to Frederick Municipal Airport, site
of AOPA headquarters, by Marshal Service and Air Force aircraft
where it landed shortly before 1 PM." (Eastern Time).

"Although little was immediately known about the aircraft's
occupants, one of the two men on board was a student
pilot and a member of the 10 person flying club that owns
the airplane. The other occupant was identified as a flight
instructor."

"The men exited the aircraft at gunpoint before being
handcuffed and detained for questioning by the Secret
Service. It was not immediately clear what, if any, charges
would be filed against the men. Both men were reportedly
cooperating with authorities."

"Two F-16s dropped four warning flares in the path of the
airplane in an effort to divert it, according to NBC News.
The pilot reportedly told officials his radio was not working."

By the way, the Washington Metropolitan Air Defense
Identification Zone (ADIZ) was created in 2003 and is nearly
40 miles in size. The AOPA has been trying to get the FAA
to modifying the ADIZ, saying it was intended to be temporary.
The AOPA, along with some members of Congress, have also been
trying to reopen Reagan/National to general aviation aircraft.

Greg