I had an odd experience at LAX this week.

I cleared security and went up onto the concourse with about 45 mins to kill before boarding. I was talking on my cell when I heard my name being paged: "UA is paging Mr. TakeMeToEZE -- please report to Gate XX immediately."

Thinking this really odd as I had already been upgraded and had no business with the GAs I went up to the podium to find a TSA guy and couple of police officers with a dog that wanted to speak with me. He told me that my bag had tested positive for explosive residue and therefore they had searched it. He said that while it wasn't uncommon to find some explosive residue as it apparently is found in cosmetics, my bag was "covered in it." He said the residue was coming from an Entertainment book I had in there. (?!) He asked me who gave me the Entertainment book, where it came from, etc.

He was an officious fellow but nonetheless very polite, no complaints. He did, however, say that he needed to take down all my information. He copied down my name, address, phone numbers, drivers license number, etc. because he said that "policy requires we make a report and keep your information on file."

So, is this normal? I'm not an anti-TSA guy. I've never really had a problem with the screeners and usually sympathize with them even though I sometimes agree with several posters here who have had some pretty bad incidents occur out of the ordinary. But did TSA really need to take down all my info and "keep my information on file"?

Thanks for the info.

You should immediately consider filing a complaint with whatever law-enforcement agency was involved, TSA, TSA at LAX, your congressman, and anyone else who will listen. Demand to know what was done with your information; demand to see the report which was filed on you, which you should (in theory) be able to do in order to correct misinformation.

It is possible they will use your personal information to place you on some sort of watchlist that will result in you being harassed every time you try to fly. It is also possible TSA will send you a multi-hundred-$ "civil fine" for "carrying explosives onto plane" that will go up if you assert your right to due process and try to contest it in TSA's kangaroo adminstrative court. It makes no logical sense, but you cannot expect common sense when it comes to TSA and their desire to create travel dossiers and deny innocent Americans their right to fly.

Do a search on "TSA" and "privacy act" and "ETD" in this forum for more information.

Very sorry about your experience.

What a load of crap. They actually acknowledged it was cosmetic residue on the Entertianment Book? No doubt they inspected the book, right? Then what is the fuss? Because of their false alarm, now your name is tainted and you have to look over your shoulder from now on. That is absolutely awful.

My other question is...if they discovered this at the security checkpoint, why didn't they do their business at the security checkpoint?

So stupid.

Like studentff, I'm sorry you had to go through that.

The way the TSA guy made it sound it was as if the report was nothing more than a formality. I was more curious about the whole thing than upset, but now after reading these replies I'm more concerned. I didn't even think to argue with the guy or ask to speak with a supervisor because it just seemed like they needed some numbers to feed the bureaucratic machine.

Also, to answer LessO2's question, the Entertainment book was in my checked bag. I had checked in and then gone through security. I was near the gate about 20 minutes after checking the bag when TSA had me paged.

Do you all really think I'm going to be put on a watch list because of this??

I really do not know, nor do I think anybody else does. Some peoples' experiences have had TSA people say the information gets destroyed upon a safe landing of your flight, other TSA folks say it stays in a database.

I highly doubt you'll end up on a watch list just because your bag set off the ETD. It's a fairly common occurrence, like the TSA guy told you a lot of harmless items will set them off. It's just procedure that we take your info down in case something does go wrong. Of course to appease the more paranoid i'm just a grunt and they don't tell me ewverything.

But still, I doubt your name will end up anywhere worse than all the consumer databases that companies use to track your buying habits.

I had a checked bag set off an ETD two years ago; a bag containing personal items in a walgreens bag which tested positive for TNT. They took all my info. I did contact my senators office to do an inquiry for me, as it bothered me they wanted the info, despite the alarm being cleared - never got any straight info. Nothing has happened since then.

SDF_Traveler

To the OP:

Did you bag make your flight and did it arrive safely at arrival baggage claim? Just curirious.

If it did, I wouldn't worry, as it appears they cleared the bag so it is safe for transport -- otherwise it wouldn't be on the flight. (or any flight).

It does bother me they keep such information on file. My information is "on file" (unless it was destroyed after flight, which is one of the answers I was provided, along with, it's kept in our records, etc). This bothers me more than anything else, as I believe I have the right to know where the information goes.

Example: if I am involved in an accident and a police officer needs to collect my info, it's available for me to obtain as a police report and for other parties to obtain. Esentially a public record.

The TSA: The world will never know. Will this eventually end up in the "secure flight" database or some type of data mining system? Or was it really destroyed two years ago. Is it sitting in a warehouse or on a computer as an imaged document? Has someone taken the info and put it into a computer (i.e. data entry) record. If destroyed, was it tossed in a trash can or was it properly shredded and destroyed?

I know dealing with my bank (and working for them), any paperwork with a name or address on it, or drivers license #, credit reports, etc., is properly discarded when it is no longer needed and properly shredded, then properly disposed of. Privacy/Protection of personal information is tightly protected by law and is taken very seriously. Trash cans contain trash, paperwork is not trash and is shredded. Anything which cannot be disposed of goes to a warehouse for safekeeping until the retention period is over, at which point it is destroyed.

While O/T: What scares me is the Patriot Act and what banks must go through to comply with it. Did you know if you go to a bank now and open a new checking account or obtain a mortgage or home equity loan, your name and address is compared against a government watchlist -- among other verification steps. Prior to the Patriot Act was "know your customer" -- this standard is no longer good enough. You could be someone well known in the community everyone knows; not good enough.

There have been stories in newspapers about individuals, including a 19 year old kid who was denied an auto loan, not because of bad credit or risk factors, but because his name matched a govt watch list and the Patriot Act mandates financial institutions to "report" individuals who match to a government hotline. Some are very conservative and will report any type of match, some will use their judgement to determine if it is a real match, and others are a bit more liberal -- it all depends on the bank's interrpertation of the act. Some of the more liberal may become more conservative when it comes govt audit time.

This scares me, as it is yet another "watchlist". It results in banks spending money and resources on the "war against terrorism". None of the above is classified or secret information (feel free to read the Patriot Act), but I bet many people aren't aware of this when they move to a new community and go to their local bank to open a checking account or obtain a mortgage for their new home. Your name may be compared with the updated watchlist at any time in the future, lists change, ya know. Thank the Patriot Act.

Yes, banks are heavily regulated and have a duty to report cases of possible money laundering, etc. We all know transactions over 10k are reported and banks do have responsibility in this areas.... but when banks have to start using government watchlists, that draws the line, IMHO. As far as the watchlist, there there is also "mission creep" as to who could be put on it. Not to be a surprise, but, some common names do result in hits (false-positives). Some US addresses alone result in false/positive hits, as there are cities in the US which share names with some overseas cities.

Sorry for the rant -- but it bothers me when big brother goes too far -- and this is too far, IMHO. Others may beg to differ, but welcome to the world of government watchlists. Last, let's thank the govt for other provisions of the Patriot Act, the out of control TSA/DHS along with their watch lists, "Secure Flight" and the data mining it will result in, all the PNRs turned over to the government for "Secure Flight", and for the new law prohibiting lighters. Great job, I feel safer and know this will help me sleep better at night

<rant off>

SDF_Traveler

I work for a non-profit. If we were to join the government's version of the United Way - I can't remember what the plan is called - we would have to sign an agreement that would require us to check each and every employee's name against "the list" in order to be funded.

Also, I noticed just yesterday a foundation to which we were considering applying for a grant would require us to sign a statement to the effect that we complied with the Patriot Act.

The terrorists have won, as I've said previously.

What should have happened is that the supervisor should have explained to you why he needed your personal information and how TSA intends to use that information. This is required by the Privacy Act of 1974. Unfortunately, very few supervisors comply with this requirement which applies to all federal government employees whenever they record any personal information.

You will not end up on any watch list.

The Explosives Trace Detection machine looks for characteristics associated with explosives. It is misleading to say that explosive residue is found in cosmetics. Instead, it is more accurate to say that there are common ingredients in both explosives and cosmetics. For example, most skin care lotions contain glycerin or a derivative of glycerin. No big deal until you mix glycerin with nitro which produces a highly unstable and quite explosive compound. The ETD will alarm on glycerin, but that does not necessarily mean that it detected an explosive. It only means that it found a component normally found in explosives. It's up to the supervisor and LEO to figure out whether or not that bottle of Noxema Body Lotion is really skin cream or an explosive.

Whenever an ETD alarms, we have to resolve the alarm. This requires a detailed report that outlines what alarmed and how we determined whether or not it was really an explosive. It also requires your personal information. All basic reports require the who, what, where, when, how and why. Your input is essential to providing a complete and accurate report of what happened and how they determined it was not a threat.

People mistakenly call these false alarms. It is not a false alarm. The technology did what it is designed to do. It requires human judgment to analyze the machine's findings, study the passenger's belongings inside the alarmed bag and assess the passenger via an interview to determine whether or not a threat to commercial aviation exists.

Sounds to me that you either had multiple alarms on your bag or a "hit" that was very high in amplitude. Sounds like they got a canine unit and the dog also alerted on the bag. However, and I'm guessing here, it sounds like there wasn't quite enough indicators there to cross the line between unusual coincidence and bona fide suspicion. If there were, you would not have been allowed on the plane and you would find yourself as the most popular person in Cell Block 8 by now.

They did the right thing by paging you and obtaining your personal information. Where the supervisor screwed up was in failing to explain why he needed your personal information and how TSA intends to use that information. Unfortunately, it's a common procedural violation throughout TSA even though there's been a lot of training emphasis on following the Privacy Act policy.

Hope this clarifies things up for you.

All you have to do is ask him to fulfill his obligations under the Federal Privacy Act of 1974 before you'll give him information. I suspect he'd be so flumoxed, he'd let you go (or he could detain you until he figures out what that is )

Will you get your entertainment book back?? Or will you get a refund

The report may require completion of personal information, but I see no acceptable justification for that requirement. If the item was a threat then the perp doesn't fly and gets to chat with several men in black suits (at the very least). If the item is determined not to be a threat, then the owner is allowed to fly and that should be the end of it. All that should need to be reported with regards to the 'who' is the name and PNR number. If the plane blows up, all other information can be obtained from the airline.

Just because some DOHs/TSA mandarin designed a form with space for extraneous personal data does not mean it is logical, reasonable or necessary.

I doubt these reports are physically destroyed, they are sitting in a database somewhere (possibly archived, possibly still live). I bet if some passenger repeatedly triggers an ETD alarm, there will be umm... consequences.

I'm intrigued by a dog that wanted to speak with me. Did you ask it who was the best baseball player ever ?

I agree completely. WHY is personal information needed to complete a report? I'm curious what would happen if you refuse to provide it.

I routinely refuse to provide personal information in a variety of contexts. I don't give retailers my mailing address or home phone number. I don't give doctors my social security number or drivers license. My criterion for giving personal information is very simple: is there any benefit to me? If the answer is, "no," I don't give it.

What would be the consequence of refusing to give TSA personal information if you've done nothing wrong?

I can only guess, but you may not be travelling that day. And as to why they need it? Anyone likes to bet a quarter that it's SSI?