Cheese Slicer SNAFU at SMF Checkpoint
Dec 9, 2004, 12:20 pm
#31
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,242
Originally Posted by GradGirl
I nominate this for most points scored against the TSA in a single incident. MSY-MSP, you kicked TSA butts with their own vague rules AND loosed the real law enforcement officers on them. Can we give you a medal?
Dec 9, 2004, 12:22 pm
#32
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Give them this address:
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500
Question: What happens if an American citizen who lives in Belgium (such as myself) presents their American passport and a Belgian drivers license that doesn't even have our picture on it?
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500
Question: What happens if an American citizen who lives in Belgium (such as myself) presents their American passport and a Belgian drivers license that doesn't even have our picture on it?
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
Dec 9, 2004, 12:57 pm
#33
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Originally Posted by Japhydog
How about a Lifetime Achievement Award?
.
Dec 9, 2004, 12:59 pm
#34
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Originally Posted by Peetah
Give them this address:
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500
Question: What happens if an American citizen who lives in Belgium (such as myself) presents their American passport and a Belgian drivers license that doesn't even have our picture on it?
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
1600 Pennsylvania Ave. NW
Washington, DC 20500
Question: What happens if an American citizen who lives in Belgium (such as myself) presents their American passport and a Belgian drivers license that doesn't even have our picture on it?
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
Dec 9, 2004, 1:12 pm
#36
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Orange County, CA
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Posts: 1,681
Originally Posted by Peetah
Question: What happens if an American citizen who lives in Belgium (such as myself) presents their American passport and a Belgian drivers license that doesn't even have our picture on it?
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
Wonder if they can even spell my street name correctly.... Sint Truiderstraat
If they need you to spell it out, pronounce each letter in Flemish. If this happens to me, I intend to show them my other passport and give them an address in the native language.
Dec 9, 2004, 1:19 pm
#37
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by L-1011
Just give them the address and when they ask for spelling tell them: "Just like it sounds". If they need you to spell it out, pronounce each letter in Flemish. If this happens to me, I intend to show them my other passport and give them an address in the native language.
If they need you to spell it out, pronounce each letter in Flemish. If this happens to me, I intend to show them my other passport and give them an address in the native language. I can see it now...
"Sir we need your driver's license"
[hands over a Belgian driver license that's in Dutch and English]
"Your American driver's license"
"I don't have one!"
"As an American you must have an American driver's license!"
"As an American that doesn't live in this country, I'm not required to have an American driver's license!"
*much fiddling around*
"What's your address?"
[in Dutch] "Sint Truiderstraat 15, 3700 Tongeren" (not my real address but damn close to it)
"In English!"
"hrmm... Sint Truiderstraat 15, 3700 Tongeren"
"How do you spell it?"
"In Dutch or English?"
"In English!"
[big smile] "Er... S-t-u-p-i-d f-u-c...."
Dec 9, 2004, 1:32 pm
#38
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Originally Posted by MSY-MSP
I was going to post this in the thread about the nitro reports, but it seems more appropriate here.
And you should have sent a formal complaint to the TSA about this crap.
Dec 9, 2004, 1:38 pm
#39
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Originally Posted by mizzou65201
Settlement offers aren't un-American. That's all this is. The defendant is free to ignore the settlement offer and proceed to trial.
As far as I'm concerned, this civil penalty program of the TSA is an un-American travesty. Accordingly, I don't see offers by the TSA to accept a fraction of their proposed penalties as a "settlement offer." Instead, I lump them in the same category as, say, the shakedowns that Prop. 64 was designed to restrict.
I agree with former Rep. Bob Barr's characterizations of the TSA's civil penalty scheme:
But critics who include former U.S Rep. Bob Barr (search), R-Ga., say the government is wrongly treating all travelers like criminals, and spending tax dollars on a security measure that does little to target real terrorists.
Law-abiding citizens are being made to feel like criminals, he said. None of this is going to stop terrorists from doing what they want to do.
<snip>
Barr said this has resulted in arbitrary punishment and inconsistent application of the law.
Its arbitrary power that should never be tolerated in our society, he said, speculating that the TSA was using the regulations to raise revenues, and to simply flex its muscles and let people know its in charge.
Law-abiding citizens are being made to feel like criminals, he said. None of this is going to stop terrorists from doing what they want to do.
<snip>
Barr said this has resulted in arbitrary punishment and inconsistent application of the law.
Its arbitrary power that should never be tolerated in our society, he said, speculating that the TSA was using the regulations to raise revenues, and to simply flex its muscles and let people know its in charge.
Arbitrary. I certainly agree. But I'd go a step further and add "capricious" to the description. YMMV. That's what's great about America.
Dec 9, 2004, 1:57 pm
#40
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
.....
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113992,00.html
Arbitrary. I certainly agree. But I'd go a step further and add "capricious" to the description. YMMV. That's what's great about America.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113992,00.html
Arbitrary. I certainly agree. But I'd go a step further and add "capricious" to the description. YMMV. That's what's great about America.
i'm curious as to where the item was confiscated-before/during/after security. the reason i ask is that it is my understanding that it is only a violation if you have gone thru security with a "prohibited item". nothing in the world can prevent me from walking landside with whatever i please because if it was prohibited to have such items landside, then the checkpoint would be at the curb. if the items are found during security, then the item is simply confiscated and you go on your way. if you are found to have a "no-no" on you post security, then yes you have violated the law and hence the fine-
just my non-legal (but common sense approach)
give me liberty but hands off my bic
Dec 9, 2004, 2:33 pm
#41
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Originally Posted by goalie
regarding the above mentioned foxnews article......
i'm curious as to where the item was confiscated-before/during/after security. the reason i ask is that it is my understanding that it is only a violation if you have gone thru security with a "prohibited item". nothing in the world can prevent me from walking landside with whatever i please because if it was prohibited to have such items landside, then the checkpoint would be at the curb. if the items are found during security, then the item is simply confiscated and you go on your way. if you are found to have a "no-no" on you post security, then yes you have violated the law and hence the fine-
just my non-legal (but common sense approach)
i'm curious as to where the item was confiscated-before/during/after security. the reason i ask is that it is my understanding that it is only a violation if you have gone thru security with a "prohibited item". nothing in the world can prevent me from walking landside with whatever i please because if it was prohibited to have such items landside, then the checkpoint would be at the curb. if the items are found during security, then the item is simply confiscated and you go on your way. if you are found to have a "no-no" on you post security, then yes you have violated the law and hence the fine-
just my non-legal (but common sense approach)
Under many laws, attempts are punished as severely as successful criminal endeavors. Why give incompetent lawbreakers a break?
At the checkpoint, the TSA permits travelers to remove some prohibited items and take them back to their car or check them in checked bags or to "voluntarily abandon" them at the checkpoint. Other items, however, are confiscated by the TSA without the option of keeping the item. When that happens, expect a fine. Or a criminal indictment. Or maybe nothing. Arbitrary and capricious.
As the TSA itself says:
If you bring a prohibited item to the checkpoint you may be criminally and/or civilly prosecuted or at the least asked to rid yourself of the item. A screener and/or Law Enforcement Officer will make this determination depending on what the item is and the circumstances. This is because bringing a prohibited item to a security checkpoint - even accidentally - is illegal.
Your prohibited item may be detained for use in an investigation and if necessary as evidence in your criminal and/or civil prosecution. If permitted by the screener or Law Enforcement Officer, you may be allowed to:
Consult with the airlines for possible assistance in placing the prohibited item in checked baggage
Withdraw with the item from the screening checkpoint at that time
Make other arrangements for the item such as taking it to your car
Voluntarily abandon the item. Items that are voluntarily abandoned cannot be recovered and will not be returned to you.
Please refer to the printable versions of the prohibited and permitted items list above where you will find a list of items that are permitted or prohibited in your carry-on or checked baggage. You should note that some items are allowed in your checked baggage but not your carry-on. Also pay careful attention to the 'Notes' included at the bottom of each section - they contain important information about restrictions.
The prohibited and permitted items list is not intended to be all-inclusive and is updated as necessary. To ensure everyone's security the screener may determine that an item not on this chart is prohibited.
Your prohibited item may be detained for use in an investigation and if necessary as evidence in your criminal and/or civil prosecution. If permitted by the screener or Law Enforcement Officer, you may be allowed to:
Consult with the airlines for possible assistance in placing the prohibited item in checked baggage
Withdraw with the item from the screening checkpoint at that time
Make other arrangements for the item such as taking it to your car
Voluntarily abandon the item. Items that are voluntarily abandoned cannot be recovered and will not be returned to you.
Please refer to the printable versions of the prohibited and permitted items list above where you will find a list of items that are permitted or prohibited in your carry-on or checked baggage. You should note that some items are allowed in your checked baggage but not your carry-on. Also pay careful attention to the 'Notes' included at the bottom of each section - they contain important information about restrictions.
The prohibited and permitted items list is not intended to be all-inclusive and is updated as necessary. To ensure everyone's security the screener may determine that an item not on this chart is prohibited.
Gotta love that last bolded portion. Arbitrary and capricious.
The arbitrary and capricious agency is making us all safer.
Dec 9, 2004, 4:01 pm
#42
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: BOS and vicinity
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Originally Posted by FWAAA
At the checkpoint, the TSA permits travelers to remove some prohibited items and take them back to their car or check them in checked bags or to "voluntarily abandon" them at the checkpoint. Other items, however, are confiscated by the TSA without the option of keeping the item. When that happens, expect a fine.
Completely unacceptable IMO. If there is a possiblity of a fine, the screener/supervisor should directly communicate that to the pax AT the checkpoint on the day of travel. What's going on now is equivalent to if a cop pulls you over for running a red light, says you just are getting a warning, and then his supervisor later decides to send you a ticket.
Dec 9, 2004, 4:14 pm
#43
Join Date: May 2002
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Originally Posted by Peetah
"In Dutch or English?"
"In English!"
[big smile] "Er... S-t-u-p-i-d f-u-c...."
Next thing you'll be telling us is that French Fries come from there!
Dec 9, 2004, 5:06 pm
#44
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 11,242
Originally Posted by FWAAA
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,113992,00.html
Arbitrary. I certainly agree. But I'd go a step further and add "capricious" to the description. YMMV. That's what's great about America.
Dec 9, 2004, 6:05 pm
#45
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 704
Originally Posted by HeHateY
They speak Dutch in Belgium?
Next thing you'll be telling us is that French Fries come from there!
Next thing you'll be telling us is that French Fries come from there!
Fries... that's a whole different subject. The French like them like their women, thin and slender, and only fried once (the fries, not the women). The Belgians prefer their fries (but not their women) thick (like the wedge fries at some fast food restaurants in the USA) and they're double fried. Who cares where they came from? Personally, I don't care where they came from, how they're cooked or sliced, so long as they're served hot with ketchup and not mayonnaise!
Back to the subject matter at hand, if the person walks into a security checkpoint with something that's prohibited, let them mail it home, discard it, or check it in with their luggage. Don't try to supplement the agency's budget with "civil" fines. Give them the benefit of the doubt, they haven't entered the sterile area yet, and maybe they didn't know what's in the day's SOP of prohibited items.