It's scary to think that people haven't gotten the message yet that you can't bring a gun on the plane. They are few and far between when you consider the millions of people who fly, but still?

We could swear in and deputize the TSA screeners as dual roles: customer service/security screening and Law Enforcement. Make them IRS agents too; that way when they see something valuable in your luggage and choose to liberate it, it will be "for the good of the country."

How many guns were found pre-TSA? We can then compare.

A critical piece of data missing is the subset (anywhere from 0 - 2150) of those guns pre-9/11 screening would have found. To do this right, you could take the number of guns found during the period mentioned above, calculate the guns-to-passengers ratio, throw in a fudge factor to account for the number of passengers who didn't show for their flights, and make a predictive apples-to-apples judgment to compare TSA versus pre-9/11.

I suspect the TSA did this type of statistical analysis, but they didn't get the answer they wanted.

Well the theory that there are weapons present and they "may" go off is great but in everyday life they have not to this point. When you look back over the last 10 years noone has left a gun on board a plane EXCEPT A FAM, no one has left a gun in an airport bathroom EXCEPT A FAM, the only incidents with weapons were cased by those who were suppose to have them and use them to "protect" the flying public (what a joke...just makes those who fly once/twice a year feel warm and fuzzy)
Maybe we are screen the wrong people...Let's screen those who are allowed to carry guns onboard.

Exactly. There is no evidence that the TSA has found more, or fewer guns at screening checkpoints. There is no data pre-TSA, so any claims the TSA makes to support its success are nonsensical. Audits conducted by the news media have shown the number of guns and knives missed by TSA screeners to be similar to the number missed by pre-9/11 private screeners.

I agree, we do not want guns onboard aircraft - however, again, the TSA cannot demonstrate any improvement over pre-9/11 security contractors when it comes to finding guns. The 'prohibited item' statistics are equally nonsenical, because the definition of a 'prohibited item' has been extended to such ridiculous extremes, almost anything at the discretion of the screener can be reported as a prohibited item and counted.

To get a good idea of TSA's efficiency, lacking pre-TSA data, we could try to calculate the number of credible threat to a flight (gun ok, because they can discharge, since visibly their owner is prone to forget important things, but microscopic pointy objects that can be found inside a plane, no) caught at an airport, divide it by the total cost of screening, divide it again per pax, and calculate the same ratio for other countries. The system with the lowest dollar spent/incident/pax is the most efficient.

If you don't think people should be forbidden to carry a gun in an airplane, another calculation is possible. To discount the case of forgetful pax who happen to carry their gun on them, let's not take into account the case where people were not prosecuted with criminal charges after the gun was found. If it was only a mistake, they were just fined, apparently. So calculate the number of charged pax divided by total pax divided by the amount paid.

Then again, I suck at statistics.

Grad girl - very good point, but it sort of misses the issue.

The TSAJohn should not be proud of spending so much and yielding so little, but plain and simple GUNS ARE DANGEROUS ON AIRPLANES. PERIOD. If one goes off accidently, or otherwise, it can pierce the body of the plane and kill many, many people.

It's not a matter of putting a price on life, its sadly the high cost of living

Guns are only as dangerous as the person exercising control over them. PERIOD. A gun has no ability to discharge itself, someone must exercise an action in order to discharge a gun.

More appropriately, IGNORANT PEOPLE WITH GUNS ARE DANGEROUS. PERIOD.

This is just not true. Hollywood hype has caused this misconception, piercing the outer skin of a pressurized aircraft with a bullet WILL NOT cause the airplane to come apart and kill many, many people. It will cause rapid decompression, freezing cold temps, and lack of oxygen depending on the altitude of the plane at the time. However if you had listened to the safety dance in the beginning, you would know how to survive rapid decompression, and the lack of oxygen. Although I'll give you the fact that there is nothing to do about the well below zero outside air tempurature. Your single shot pierces skin, downs passenger jet scenario is survivable, although undesirable.

I think (I hope) everyone is in agreement that guns do not belong on airplanes, except as empty and declared checked baggage. Screening for firearms should continue to be a major priority of any passenger screening regimen.

The question is: does the TSA making yet another declaration of 'success' provide any supporting evidence that its screening methods and procedures have 1) found more firearms than pre-TSA screeners, and 2) the firearms confiscations by the TSA resulted in an intended threat to passenger safety being averted

I would say 'no' to the above. Let the private screeners with some improved training and oversight continue to use pre-9/11 passenger screening methods to find the guns - and - let a significant fine be levied against any dingbat passenger who decides to try and carry their gun onboard (which would preclude a good number of entertainment celebrities from flying)

If the time comes when statistics are collected from private screeners to compare to the TSA's results, I am sure the number of confiscated and missed weapons will be about the same. The number of angry and frustrated travelers will be far less without the TSA, though.

Fly4Food is correct - a firearm discharge is unlikely to result in an airframe failure unless the bullet ends up piercing the wing fuel tanks in a bad way - highly unlikely - however, we still don't want guns on board.

Quite the contrary, guns do go on airplanes. I fly regularly with a shotgun to the National Sporting Clays match, the US Open clays match, and numerous shoots on a national scale. And the drill is

Desk agent: Good morning
Me: good morning, and I'm traveling with a firearm.
Me: significant look at the Americase containing the shotgun.

DA: Is the ammunition separate from the firearm?
Me: I'm not carrying any (with 2 + cases for a typical shoot, I buy it there)
DA: gives me the the declaration that it's unloaded to sign
Me: sign the declaration and put in case.

These days, I have to hand carry the unlocked case to the security screening area and wait until they've cleared it.

Which lead to the this exchange:

The screener does the explosives test and says 'you don't take this to the range, do you?'

and I'm thinking: 'it's a bloody gun case! what do YOU think?' but say yes I do. So the gun case gets the intimate screening. Luckily, the guy appear to have a clue or two and didn't give me a really bad time. I may not always be that lucky.

This is all perfectly legal and defined by the Feds. Take a look at any airlines rules for baggage. This is all defined. The only restriction the airlines add is, generally you can only take 5 kilos of ammunition. For a hunting trip, that's fine. For a clays shoot, it's not even close.

Given sufficient time, nearly anything one can imagine can and will probably happen. But is this sufficient reason to strip everyone of both their dignity and also anything deemed potentially dangerous? Like the OP�s said, it�s the intent that is much more important than the object.
Let a Coke bottle through security, sooner or later some dude is going to use it as a weapon. Same thing applies to knitting needles, pencils, a rolled-up magazine, a pair of hands on a black belt karate master and thousands of other things I could list.
IMO, if we try to plan for every single eventuality then the whole travel system in the US comes to a screeching halt.

Maybe this doesn't apply to you, but I think that the real problem is that guns have become wicked voodoo talismans to many people. Sure, guns can cause problems but they don't seem to so far, and neither have wine bottles on board been broken to form makeshift weapons, no one has slammed their laptop over anyone's head or strangulated anyone with a power cord. I'm really at a loss to know why you concerned about the one thing and not the other.

Wicked voodoo talisman, that's the problem I think. People think that guns are "evil" and they can't get beyond the visceral fear they've built up culturally.

Your travels go smoother than mine:

Desk Agent: Godd morning!
Me: Good morning, I'm on flight XXX final destination YYY. I need a declaration or a firearm.
DA: Very well <<hands over form>> do you have any bags to check?
Me: <<look at form>> No, I'm sorry, I need the *other* declaration form. Yes I have items to check.
(You see they almost--except once--always give me the armed LEO form)
DA: Oh okay <<hands over correct form/card>> do you have any ammunition in the case?
Me: The ammunition and firearms are in separate, hard-sided, double-locked cases all housed in a locked military/NATO/ATA transport case.

Only twice was I asked to actually show the ammo and firearms were segregated. And one of those times they called a TSA weenie to come do the inspection...unfortunately this meant taking the UNLOCKED guns and ammo into the back for them to process. The other time they tried doing that I screamed bloody murder and made the DA call over the airport police officer flirting with another DA to ask why it's okay for the TSA screener with no apparent weapons training (he picked up the gun and looked into the barrel) to walkaround airside with MY unsecured firearms AND ammunition?!?! The APO looked at the firearms and locks laying on the counter and the transport case they go in, glared at the TSA guy and then told me to pack it all up. He would personally see to it that they all got to the plane intact and then he was going have a talk with his chief.

In airports where TSA is in the ticket lobby, I've only had to open the cases twice and each time they just looked--no touching, then locked them back up and sent them on their way. Other times they clearly saw the image on the CTX, saw the slides locked back or they were broken down, asked if I signed the firearm card and then sent them along. No muss, no fuss.

Let's just do away with all forms of screening. All forms of any kind of checks and balances, security, everything. Citizens can carry anything, anytime, anywhere in this country. Airline, on the street, in the mall, whatever.

What violence could or would or might occur can just be considered the cost of doing business. Lets just make it a take your chances kind of system. Odds are it wont be you, or anyone you know so whats the big deal.

In reading some of the posts here it seems like this is what people want.