Registered traveler program
Jul 27, 2004 | 1:06 pm
#16
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Originally Posted by robodeer
doubtful that they would decide on "neither."
"They" should be terminated.
Jul 27, 2004 | 1:18 pm
#17
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Originally Posted by GradGirl
Okay, Robodeer. Even taking your assumptions, that registered traveler is the only way for FF's to avoid being SSSS'ed for now, that's still by far not big enough of a carrot. Remember, nothing in the government's agreement sets in stone these procedures for the future. They might sign up 80% of the public, and then change their minds about letting people avoid SSSS, or change the procedures for searching registered travelers to be more invasive than the current SSSS deal. But people who sign up have given their blanket okay for the government to continue to investigate them for years and years and keep those records in perpetuity. Registered travelers have zero bargaining chips left after they sign those papers, so what's to guarantee the government holds up its end of the deal?
Look, there's a reason, a very good reason, that CAPPSII got killed. There is, maybe a minority of people, but a very serious percentage of people who think government surveillance and investigation of law-abiding citizens is dangerous and un-American. The registered traveller program is obviously a repackaging of CAPPSII, but it makes no sense in current form. It only makes sense as part of a plan to eventually force everyone into this program.
If you really care, you can rearrange your travel plans to avoid one-ways, get a credit card, et cetera, to avoid the SSSS usually. Or you can just manipulate a BP in photoshop or buy a fully-refundable ticket to the same terminal.
Look, there's a reason, a very good reason, that CAPPSII got killed. There is, maybe a minority of people, but a very serious percentage of people who think government surveillance and investigation of law-abiding citizens is dangerous and un-American. The registered traveller program is obviously a repackaging of CAPPSII, but it makes no sense in current form. It only makes sense as part of a plan to eventually force everyone into this program.
If you really care, you can rearrange your travel plans to avoid one-ways, get a credit card, et cetera, to avoid the SSSS usually. Or you can just manipulate a BP in photoshop or buy a fully-refundable ticket to the same terminal.
i agree partially with the second paragraph, although i reference the previous assumption about having to "check." the registered travellers program being that check in lieu of the SSSS's. whether it was a bait-and-switch to get those wary of such a system to join i can't tell either way.
document forgery aside though, thats one option.
Jul 27, 2004 | 2:19 pm
#19
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This is why I am voting Libertarian this November. The Republicrats in Congress and Presididate Burry/Chenwards show no interest in disbanding the TSA or any other facet of our bloated federal government.
Jul 27, 2004 | 3:09 pm
#20
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I'm not willing to join the registered traveler program for not only the privacy issues, but also because if you set off the magnodetector (which after years of not doing I now do every single time), I still have to go through secondary. Registering for the program doesn't get you out of that.
I also will be very pis*ed off if they replace the elite lines w/ the registered traveler line, which would be a way to force you to join the 'voluntary' program, as was mentioned as a possible in the UA forum thread. I've earned my elite status through flying 100K/year. I shouldn't have to go to the line for the folk who rarely travel just because I don't want to register for the program.
Sharon
I also will be very pis*ed off if they replace the elite lines w/ the registered traveler line, which would be a way to force you to join the 'voluntary' program, as was mentioned as a possible in the UA forum thread. I've earned my elite status through flying 100K/year. I shouldn't have to go to the line for the folk who rarely travel just because I don't want to register for the program.
Sharon
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jul 27, 2004 at 3:11 pm
Jul 27, 2004 | 4:29 pm
#21
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Originally Posted by SkiAdcock
I'm not willing to join the registered traveler program for not only the privacy issues, but also because if you set off the magnodetector (which after years of not doing I now do every single time), I still have to go through secondary. Registering for the program doesn't get you out of that.
Sharon
Sharon
Everyone here needs to take a step back and think. Have you asked the people running the show what the future holds? I have, and here's what they say:
The current process is only in place to test the devices, not the system. That is why the process is voluntary, and is why they want our feedfack. Further, this is why we feed right back into the regular elite line.
Will it always be this way? No...when the right system is developed and tweaked, there will be dedicated RT security lines.
Will RT's ever be able to bybass metal detectors and/or X-Ray? I HOPE NOT! Such a process might make me stop flying. Sharon, if you set off the metal detector, you better pray they send you to secondary!
Think, people!
Randomman
Jul 27, 2004 | 4:32 pm
#22
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Lets start talking about what we want from the system.
Instead of complaining about what we don't like about the current system, lets talk about what we would like to see. I'll start with this one:
Set the verification device up at the point where they currently check your BP and ID. Have the system linked to your FF #, whereby it knows when you have a same-day ticket booked. This way, we can walk up to the device, insert the card, scan the fingers/eyes, and head right to the metal detectors. Then I can use the Mr. Easy Check-In devices inside the terminal.
This would save a step, and make the system a little more worthwhile.
Randomman
Set the verification device up at the point where they currently check your BP and ID. Have the system linked to your FF #, whereby it knows when you have a same-day ticket booked. This way, we can walk up to the device, insert the card, scan the fingers/eyes, and head right to the metal detectors. Then I can use the Mr. Easy Check-In devices inside the terminal.
This would save a step, and make the system a little more worthwhile.
Randomman
Jul 27, 2004 | 5:04 pm
#23
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Originally Posted by randomman
Instead of complaining about what we don't like about the current system, lets talk about what we would like to see.
Jul 27, 2004 | 5:16 pm
#24
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Originally Posted by GradGirl
I'd like to see them spend the money they're wasting on government surveillance of law-abiding citizens to improve our domestic and foreign intelligence agencies, starting with language skills and ending with an approach to terrorism that focuses on real threats. I'd like them to stop paying thousands of people to fondle my luggage and my breasts, and spend the money on securing ports, cargo, borders, et cetera.
focusing more on domestic intelligence i would think ties in with the privacy issue.
i agree with the sentiment towards bulking up their capabilities, but it seems like some of the points brought up conflict in that regard.
same with border/customs. that means someone asking you questions, or putting you under scrutiny.
i take it from the previous thread that not many would be for any of these. i may be wrong though.
Jul 27, 2004 | 5:32 pm
#25
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Originally Posted by randomman
Instead of complaining about what we don't like about the current system, lets talk about what we would like to see. I'll start with this one:
Set the verification device up at the point where they currently check your BP and ID. Have the system linked to your FF #, whereby it knows when you have a same-day ticket booked. This way, we can walk up to the device, insert the card, scan the fingers/eyes, and head right to the metal detectors. Then I can use the Mr. Easy Check-In devices inside the terminal.
This would save a step, and make the system a little more worthwhile.
Randomman
Set the verification device up at the point where they currently check your BP and ID. Have the system linked to your FF #, whereby it knows when you have a same-day ticket booked. This way, we can walk up to the device, insert the card, scan the fingers/eyes, and head right to the metal detectors. Then I can use the Mr. Easy Check-In devices inside the terminal.
This would save a step, and make the system a little more worthwhile.
Randomman
Jul 27, 2004 | 11:43 pm
#26
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randomman, in years & years i've not set off the magno & suddenly in the last few months i'm now doing so every single time, wearing the SAME clothes/shoes that NEVER set off the machines before & according to YOU I'm supposed to feel THANKFUL that I get sent to secondary. I don't think so.
you want to do the registered traveller program & give up your rights to do it - that's fine - that IS your right - but don't you EVER give me a hard time about not giving up mine.
Edited to add: btw, neither before when I never set off the magno nor now when I do every time, have I had a bomb on my person, nor have the rivets in my jeans had a wmd, nor have my bare feet had anything implanted (aka manchurian candidate).
you want to do the registered traveller program & give up your rights to do it - that's fine - that IS your right - but don't you EVER give me a hard time about not giving up mine.
Edited to add: btw, neither before when I never set off the magno nor now when I do every time, have I had a bomb on my person, nor have the rivets in my jeans had a wmd, nor have my bare feet had anything implanted (aka manchurian candidate).
Last edited by SkiAdcock; Jul 30, 2004 at 2:23 pm
Jul 28, 2004 | 12:52 am
#27
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Americans won't stand for this identity-as-security nonsense for long. Hopefully, we won't stand for it before it sets in any further.
Jul 28, 2004 | 8:26 am
#28
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Originally Posted by randomman
So wait, you want to be able to walk through the metal detector with a gun and/or bomb, set off the alarm, and still be able to walk through without secondary screening? Does this make any sense? Think about it...
Originally Posted by randomman
Think, people!
Aug 2, 2004 | 9:01 pm
#29
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I know that some people are getting emotional about this. I personally don't think this is of any value. Playing devil's advocate - can anyone give me a few benefits of WHY it's beneficial for me to join a program like this? I can't think of any.
Aug 2, 2004 | 11:49 pm
#30
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Originally Posted by MrFurious
I know that some people are getting emotional about this. I personally don't think this is of any value. Playing devil's advocate - can anyone give me a few benefits of WHY it's beneficial for me to join a program like this? I can't think of any.
Other than that, you're right -- what is the point?
Why do people sign up for it? Because they're stupid, and unfortunately, stupidity is a common illness these days.
