Are you the air marshal?
 

Recently I was flying to ORD and was the first to board. There was a guy with a crew cut in the seat next to mine, so I asked him after fastening my seat belt, "Are you the air marshal?" He said no, and then I said I always try to guess who the air marshals are on planes as a way to kill time. Right after I said that he takes out this beeper and starts pecking away until we push back. So I forget about the whole thing until we land and there is a special reception for me at the gate. "Why do you want to know who the air marshal is?" And I get an extra thorough search, which by now I am used to. After my previous encounter I take out my print out of the web page that Venk referred me to and start saying I want a same sex search in a private area, I know my rights....

So my questions are:

1) Aren't police and other law enforcement supposed to identify themselves when asked?

2) If the the government is so paranoid about customers knowing who the air marshals are, then why don't they just board with everyone else?

3) Don't I have a right not to sit next to someone with a firearm on an aircraft? I mean which is more likely, to be injured while opening an emergency exit or to be injured by a loaded weapon.

:eek: That is incredible. You got stopped for pointing out the air marshall. Well he blew his cover then. This is ridiculous and I believe it is a 4th amendment rights violation but can we really win that argument. It is in the name of security :rolleyes: (or drug free america, or the children, or blah blah blah) :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

hmmmmm
 

it appears that there is a penalty to be paid for "blowing their cover" I'm sure that it's embarrassing for them to be spotted by a lay person => :)

when they are so obviously incognito => :cool:

It is really unfortunate that something like that happened to you. One thing those FAMs can do is communicate with the ground! You're actually quite lucky they didn't jail you - that Patriot Act you know, it's a real hoot!

It isn't quite yet common knowledge that people, once entering an airport, surrender all of their civil rights, you have none. It is like entering a foreign country where US Civil Rights laws do not apply, and there is no embassy to turn to for help.

Just another shining example of private corporations being given authority above and beyond the laws of the land.

Truth be told those "bobsy twins" are always easy to spot, so much so that I'm not so sure it's supposed to be a big secret anymore. I've sat next to them on more than several occasions and when you do, just pay attention and you'll see that you are watched like a hawk if you get into the overhead bin to retrieve something from your carry-on. Can anyone guess why?

Glad you got back home safe and sound instead of locked up somewhere with your family still wondering where you are!

Well US citizenship does have its priviledges ;) . Of course, if I had been on an expired tourist visa, I'd probably be hanging by the thumbs in Guantanamo bay! It's not like I got up and announced on the PA the airmarshal is sitting in 3B. BTW, it's so predictable where they sit: the aisle of the last row in F with their partner in the exit row of Y.

I think having the print out of the TSA rules really helped. I am sick and tired of being pushed around by these bullies. Maybe what I'll do is shrink it onto an index card to put in your wallet and post the .pdf file. Still, doesn't law enforcement have an obligation to identify themselves? It really makes me depressed that everyone on an airplane (especially AA) is treated like some kind of big security threat. Rationally speaking, the chance of dying in an airplane terrorist attack is much smaller than driving in a car or smoking, yet the government doesn't get so involved! Hello, perspective?

P.S. Does anyone know if the TSA surveillance tapes can be requested via the Freedom of Information Act? How long are they saved in case you want to subpoena them?

Here's a better way to handle it. When you are the first to board and you see the air marshall, just walk up to him and say "Hey, I really appreciate what you all do for us."

If someone questions you afterward act dumbfounded and say "Huh? It's always obvious who the air marshall is. If you don't want people to recognize them why do you make it so obvious?!"


:D :D :D

whirledtraveler, I LOVE it! :-:

CharlesMD, it is upsetting - and I'll bet that under the Patriot Act et sequelae we do not have the right to have a FAM identify themselves to us upon asking, just like quite a few of our rights seem to be abrogated. (I don't want to spend years in a court trying to fight for a cleare definition of "unreasonable search and seizure"...) And, if you hope to get TSA tapes released on FOIA, I hope you are very, very young with lots of spare time and energy (like your tag would have to be DoogieHawserMD.)

My motto for flying in the "new millenium" has become
"non illegitimi carborundum"
(pseudo-Latin for "don't let the ba****ds wear you down")

Hey CharlesMD, do you have a death wish or something? You never ask a fed, let alone a FAM, if he's a fed/FAM. 4th ammendment or not, these guys just don't like being asked. They are in no mood to hear it. And, as you saw, he's going to teach you a lesson if you do.

But, I will tell you that as a result of the FAMs being onboard before everyone else and never being seen going down the jetway and sticking out like a sore thumb, at least one airline I know has changed their rules and will board the FAMs with all the other pax in their class.

Charles, if I am ever on a flight with you -- I don't know you. :D

It's just one more reason why these useless sacks of ballast shouldn't be on the plane.

They're so obvious, they have one hell of a nerve getting all pissy because someone identified them. :mad:

They don't belong on the plane, their guns don't belong on the plane, and they definitely don't belong in the premium cabins. They don't pay a dime for their seats; the seats are stolen from American.

Good for you, CharlesMD. Screw this expensive and worthless program!!!

CharlesMD - do you have a link to the rights we have as a passenger flying a US airline?
thx..

hmmm...
 

While I think this FAM may have been able to handle this better... just look at it from his point of view....

He is an undercover federal officer with the (probably sole) responsibility of security on a plane. Someone sits down next to him and says "hey, you the guy with the gun? I always try to figure out who the FAM is." He does not know you from a hole-in-the wall. That would certainly make the hair stand up on the back of my neck if I was him.

Part of the effectiveness of FAM's is that they are "supposed" to be anonymous. Yes, he could have handled it better, but if they treated you considerately after your flight and did not excessively delay you or force you to miss a connecting I do not think they did too much wrong.

JMHO.

cheers,
ljr

The OP is clearly practising his people skills. I think it's great that someone's prepared to irrititate airport and security personnel and post the consequences: makes for entertaining reading and useful to point out what not to do. Keep it up! ;)

What's that theme music I hear upon boarding? Is it "I fought the law, and the law won..."? :D

Yep, that's how it is today, boys and girls, and if we don't like it, try and see if Greyhound is still serving your lovely community. ;)

See you in the unfriendly skies!

:D

Air marshalls are so obvious. I recently took a UA 757 flight in F and was the first to board. Two guys with crew cuts and suits were already on the plane, but they were seated in different rows. This was a Saturday afternoon, so they looked a little out of place. One of them was wearing boots, presumably to stash their gun.

Sorry, it's just too obvious who these guys are and I really wonder why they belong in F.