I was flying all of last week from PHL to take advantage of their GoFares and Triple Miles promos. 4 PHL-LAX, 1 PHL-SAN and 1 PHL-PVD squeezed in between (trip details in MR forum)

Day 2 - my flight 46 from LAX gets in at about 6 AM, my flight to PVD is not until 8:50. I'm sure some of you know of the nice bathrooms in PHL when exiting the C concourse, just next to the moving walkways to the D and F concourses. There are nice, with a sink in the same enclosure as the toilet so it's convenient to get a shave, brush your teeth and is spacious enough to change clothes (using the diaper table is convenient).

Well, getting to the point:
I go into said bathroom at about 6:15 - perform my functions, brush, shave and change clothes. Well, took about 40 minutes ( jokes later, please)

When I exit the bathroom, I am confronted by a TSA agent. Agent is very courteous and polite. He says, "Sir, we noted you on camera going into that bathroom for 40 minutes and the change of clothes. I think I know what you were doing but can you explain?"



So, I explain - just a change of clothes before my next flight. He understands, said he's seen other flyers do that - jokes and is very pleasant.

Second TSA agent walks in. Asks what's the matter - first guy explains. Second guy is classic goon (slicked back hair, tattoo on neck, sunglasses - reflective, no less etc. ) - asks for my boarding pass.

Of course, I don't have the PHL-PVD pass yet - was going to pick it up at the gate. Show him my pass from LAX.

He says, "You can't be inside the sterile area without a BP. You must come down to the screening area for screening and answer some questions about how you got in without a BP."

I explain I do have a BP and show him the LAX-PHL BP. He says that is not valid since I don't have a BP for the flight I am about to board. I ask him that if I hadn't mentioned that PVD flight, maybe I never left the terminal after arriving from LAX. Maybe my ride isn't coming to pick me up till 8 and instead of waiting outside, I decided to wait in the terminal.

He says that would be lying - becoming really nasty now - and said he needs to call the Philadelphia police. The first agent says not to worry and just let me go catch my flight. After a lengthy discussion, second guy says I need to leave the sterile area, get a BP from the kiosk (just outside) and re-enter. The line is a mile long but thankfully, they had an elite line and I was at the WTMD quickly.

I have flown over 60 segments this year and know exactly what to wear and ALWAYS take off my shoes even without being asked. I pass through, no beeps. I get pulled over for secondary. No SSSS on BP. No shoes. No beeps. Nothing in carry-on.

Surprise, surprise... agent #2 is the guy doing the secondary. Resigning myself to it, I let him do it and he remarks, "We need to have people get boarding passes so we know how many people are in the terminal. That way, if there is an emergency, we know how many people to evacuate."

I looked at him incredulously and said... :How about Online check-in? How about people who check in and step out for a smoke ?" I told him I didn't believe him but whatever. And he says they have ways of figuring out who is in and who is outside the terminal. As much as I was enjoying this idiocy, I had a plane to catch. Agent #1 waves at me and smiles, wishes me a good flight.

That concludes the story. Now, here is the question.

How much is too much?

Should the TSA be watching toilets to see how long people spend in there? I could have been sick, could have been reading a book - any one of a dozen reasons. Could I have refused to answer agent #1, notwithstanding him being very polite. Should I have refused to answer him?

Having said that, if the film IS available to the TSA and somebody DOES see someone spend an hour in a bathroom and coming out in different clothes, are they obligated to follow up? Looking at the 9-11 commission, would they be dragged around IF they saw something like that which later turned out to be a genuine security threat? After all, some congressman could look at Tom Ridge and say, "You mean, you had video of this person going into the bathroom, spending an hour in there, and coming out in different clothes. And you did NOTHING?" Hindsight is 20-20!!!!

So, what do you think? And please, let's keep this thread free from name calling. I don't care for the TSA any more than the next person but, like someone earlier said, blame the apparatus, not the individuals.

Again, how much is too much?

Personally I would have answered agent #1 due to his politeness, but would have expressed some concern about such monitoring of my very personal (bathroom) activity. I hardly see how changing clothes at the airport can be considered a security threat; don't lots of people do that after getting off a redeye?

As for agent #2 (and I know that armchair quarterbacking is easy and hindsight is 20/20), I would have been very tempted to call the police myself, esp. if I was on a mileage run and could afford to spend the day filing complaints, dealing with supervisors, etc. His behavior is totally unacceptable, gives the TSA a bad name, and is the reason many of us around here dislike TSA so much (despite numerous reasonable TSAers just doing their job). Another option would have been to demand to see his supervisor and/or demand to walk over to a gate or service-center and get your BP in his line of sight. You should not have had to leave security and go through the line; another option would have been to take the non-elite line just so you could miss your flight and use that in the complaint to TSA. (i.e., "I had a valid connection and this goon forced me out of the sterile area, making me miss my connection.")

I hope you got his badge number; he should be fired and barred from government jobs for life. His security "logic" completely fails to account for the fact that arriving pax do not have a departing boarding pass. His picking you out for secondary out of a grudge is even worse and a classic example of "security" types lording their power over the masses.

Please write the FSD of that airport, TSA HQ (even though it seems they just file-13 complaints), and your congressman. I doubt the media will care much about the plight of a mileage-runner, but if you focus on the bathroom surveillance angle you might get their attention too.

A question to spur discussion:

Does TSA have the authority to stop a pax in the sterile area (not including the checkpoint/"secure" area) and ask for their BP/ID? If they are an arriving pax with no departing BP, does TSA have the authority to escort them from the sterile area?

(i.e., am I allowed to fly into LAX and spend 2-3 days in the sterile area without ever leaving if I so desire? What if I just eat breakfast; can I be yanked out of the restaraunt by TSA for lack of a BP?)

You know if your going to contact the FSD I would find out if TSA personnel are monitoring videos to my knowledge (as far as the airport I work at) the airport police are responsible for monitoring the video cameras. I don't know just kinda sounds fishy to me, not your story but the TSA monitoring video cameras. Well unless they have a different setup there.

This is the worst TSA story I've heard, by far, bnarayan1511. I think you should get an award at next year's Freddies!

I just cannot believe that TSA is monitoring bathrooms. What about all the passengers who take showers and change in lounges. Are they being watched? Were you being watched in the bathroom? Is someone monitoring the door to each bathroom stall with a stopwatch? I am not denying your story, it just seems really weird, for lack of a better word.

Where is Spiff? He may have a coronary when he reads this!

I know that many people will say that this is easier said than done, but I have always done my very best -- in a number of encounters over many years -- to exercise my constitutional right to remain silent when confronted by TSA personnel or even by true law-enforcement officers. I respectfully refuse to answer questions (beyond identifying myself) without consulting a lawyer. I ask repeatedly if I am under arrest or being detained. Once, after a cop who was trying to question me in a shopping mall parking lot -- about something having little to do with me -- told me that I was not under arrest, I asked, "Then I presume that I am free to go?" He said yes, and off I went.

Cooperation with fascists just makes them stronger. Resist and make them uncertain of their authority. It's good for the country -- really!!!

Bruce

Well, the first TSA agent did not give me an impression that they were actually monitoring the bathrooms. I'm sure one of the million survelillance cameras was probably pointing down that area and its field of view encompassed the bathroom entrance. And it must be a morbidly bored TSA agent who spent 40 minutes looking at a bathroom entrance.

So, to answer your questions, I do not know that they were monitoring bathrooms - it is just what I was told.

To add some clarity, I might add that I am from India, sport a beard and might be considered one of the typically profiled "Middle-Eastern types" although in my 60 plus segments this year, I have never fely singled out for any special attention and have always had smooth dealings with the TSA personnel.

I would have told agent #2 to go @#$% himself, and possibly members of his family too.

Since neither of these idiots have power of detention, I would have invited them to meet me at the gate of my departing flight with any law enforcement personnel they saw fit to bring. I am quite sure that would have ended any further discussion.

Had they attempted to illegally detain me, it would have been a mental coin flip between "go time" and filing a lawsuit.

I'd have let them call the LEO and then asked him to file charges against TSA agent #2 for harrasment and racism.

LEO's are trained in the law and are (usually) far more reasonable than the average TSA'hole; certainly the slicked-back-hair ones.

The LEO will also have to get a TSA supervisor over, and I suspect that the PHL management will hear that their terminals are now being patrolled by TSA. (Bet the PHL Police union would like to know about that).

The key point here: Get this stuff documented so it shows up on the charts and spreadsheets, etc. Say no to plausible deniability!



Too bad you were not in terminal E and hold a WorldClub membership. Then you could have bought the TSA off with free Powerbars!

Monitoring bathrooms? Must be a new job. Are you sure he wasn't holding a basket with soap and towels? No wonder they want to re-distribute screeners to busier airports.

Toilet
Service
Attendents
?

Hey, could it be like those nightclubs with the tray full of colognes and other lotions?

I am amazed that you were confronted for using the restroom. Were the agents uniformed screeners, or suited managers? I never knew that TSA had the authority to interrogate individuals or even hamper the movement of passenger outside the screening locations. If you were to have been questioned, it should have been by law enforcement not by TSA. From your post, Agent #2 was a complete prick. I think that he had something against you. Your pass from the first leg of your flight should have been sufficient and they should have just backed off. It makes me wonder if I'll have to undergo questioning if my stomach decides to act up on me and keeps me on the toilet for an hour. I also wonder if the TSA agents acted on their own or were instructed to confront you. Agent #2 most likely acted on his own and Agent #1 may have been instructed.

Sadly, I have a sinking feeling that this was a more significant factor in how you were treated than your use of the bathroom. Really, really shameful.

Spiff, this:

was the funniest thing I've read in months. I know I would have had a tough time containing myself in this situation.

bnarayan,
TSA only monitors checkpoints and checked baggage pods. Every once in a while, TSA screeners will randomly conduct gate checks as a redundancy to checkpoint screening. TSA has no authority to question people inside the concourse. I think screener #1 (even though polite) and screener #2 were clearly acting without any authority. I hope you got their badge numbers and reported them. It's clowns like these that give the rest of us screeners a bad name.

I don't have first hand knowledge of PHL so I can't comment on exactly what they are doing.

TSA does have sweep teams at certain airports (all can do it but most don't because of their smaller size).

What I want to know is: how valid is that "rule" that you can't be in the secure area w/o a boarding pass even if you are connecting flights through the terminal and will get one at the gate. It sounds like utter BS.