Will on-line check-in avoid SSSS?
 

I got the deadly 4 S's at yesterday's airport check-in at DEN.
I wonder if an earlier on-line check-in could have avoided it?

Thinking the way the govt and airlines might and a terrorist, the less contact you have with someone before boarding an airplane is better for terrorists and worse for the airlines...i would assume taking out the contact with an agent at the airport is another way to slip by and thus airlines adn govt might want to SSSS on-line checkin people more. just my 2 cents.

Usually SSSS is triggered by factors other then type of check-in. Things like purchasing one-way tickets and paying cash for tickets.

In my case, this trip was no different than any other business trip. I'm 1K and I was in C using upgrade certs. I think it must have been a random selection.

I dunno about UA, but other carriers give you an error message if you try to check in online when you've been selected for harassment.

And now, here's how to avoid getting harassed at the checkpoint. If you cannot check in online, as is the case in this scenario, buy a fully-refundable ticket on another carrier that shares the same concourse. (at DEN, all the concourses are connected, so no matter) Preferrably, buy this ticket on a carrier with whom you have status and make sure it's round trip and not one way, as all terrorists are too stupid to realize that one way ticketing is often more expensive than round trip. Check in, use your new BP at checkpoint security, refund the ticket over the phone. Present your original SSSS harassment ticket at your original flight's gate. At worst, you'll get the harassment you would have received at the checkpoint. More likely, you'll just get boarded.

Admiral Loy promised to get rid of stupid rules a long time ago. SSSS is just another useless one that is so easy to bypass that the people who insist it remains should be criminally prosecuted for negligence.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Not sure if this will work. I was selected for SSSS when I accepted a VDB on UA and they endorsed me over to AA. After I was security checked, the TSA agent hole-punched the SSSS part of my boarding card. When I boarded the AA flight, the gate agent did check to see if that punch was there.

[This message has been edited by dw (edited Feb 06, 2004).]

As I said, the worst that will happen is that you will receive the harassment at the gate instead of at the checkpoint.

Now, to avoid getting harassed on a reroute, book your own flight on the phone with the carrier to which you are going to be bumped. Get your FF # into the reservation before it is ticketed. Tell the reservation agent you will get it ticketed at the airport. Then, have UA (or whoever is bumping you) print the ticket and endorse it, but tell them that you already have a reservation. Take the endorsed ticket to AA (or whomever you're bumped to), give them your record locator for the new reservation, hand them your endorsed ticket, and watch your new BP appear, SSSS-free.


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

After xmas, my sister and b-i-l couldn't check in online (I could). Got to airport for checkin. SSSS

So, you'd have probably gotten an error with online checkin.

Sorry Spiff - that's just way too much hassle to avoid going through an occasional SSSS, or at least it is for me.

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Sharon

Not me. I find the whole SSSS harassment to be un-American, disgusting, and worst of all, totally ineffective at improving security.


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Mr. Easy will check you in even if SSSS.

I have gotten the SSSS before when I was rebooked due to a canceled flight. Friend on same itinerary did not get it. Friend on seperate PNR did get it.

After the second flight canceled, was rebooked on a third flight. This time I didn't get it, nor my friend on the same PNR - but the frind on a seperate PNR was selected for double punishment. Each time they initialed or otherwise marked the SSSS - which was eventually checked for on the one SSSS boarding pass which was actually handed in.

Similar experiences have occured on subsequent trips.

I couldn't determine any pattern. FF versus inFF. Credit card vs. award ticket. Gender (surprisingly, the Female members of the party got the SSSS more than the male). Checkin time. Checkin method. None really seem to make a difference as far as I can tell.

Are you sure SSSS is not just pre printed on UA's BP'S and they are just using up old stock??

A lady in front of me had SSSS on her bp and they did nothing about it,

Dave

You have a higher probability of receiving such a scarlet letter group if you book a one-way ticket at the last minute without getting your FF# into the reservation prior to ticketing. Nothing is guaranteed, but getting that number in there before ticketing occurs will make the probability of having SSSS stupidity appear on your BP very low.

Multiple reroutes require the same diligence - you must get your FF# for the new airline in there before ticketing occurs. It's that simple. If you try to add it after they print your ticket, it will not make SSSS go away, so do it before the flight segment(s) is ticketed.

As far as I can tell, sex has nothing to do with whether one is selected for SSSS harassment.

As for SSSS being pre-printed, that's not the case. Many airports simply assume that if you're past the checkpoint with SSSS printed on your BP, you do not need to be harassed at the gate. Other airports are not set up to harass people at the checkpoint (thank God) and therefore ignore SSSS. Better to play it safe and obtain a BP that is SSSS free.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Just a small caution about buying the refundable ticket and entering the gate area, and then checking in at your gate. They may ask you how you got inside the gate area without checking in? Also if you check in and get an SSS boarding pass, and then go the route of buying a redundable ticket without SSS, and your SSS boarding pass does not have the right stamps or initials or holes punched in it, this may raise suspicion.

Shortly after 9/11 I was trying to use an old ticket and I used an open ticket which was different to get in the security area. They really became suspicious about how I was able to enter the security area without a same day ticket, and I was able to quickly tell them I showed another itinerary, but they were about to have the supervisor go talk to the security ticket checkers to see how I got on the concourse.

Perhaps some of this paranoia has dies down, and I suppose you could say you got on the concourse also by flying in on another inbound flight to DeN, but if they catch you lying or doing something that appears suspicious to them it may get you in to a situation where you have to answer a lot of questions. I have gotten the SSS a few times, and I would not say it is so bad that I would go to major trouble to avoid it. It could be a problem if running very late for a flight perhaps. I only get it maybe 3 times a year.

All you have to say is that you went through all the motions at the checkpoint and that nothing special was done regarding your SSSS. You cannot be blamed if the screeners missed it. You may want to destroy/discard your BP for the refundable flight if you're really paranoid about getting 'caught'.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

No, the worst that will happen is you will be thrown in jail and accused of being a terrorist. For someone so critical of the TSA/DHS, you seem pretty naive about how they operate.

Wanna bet? They have no proof and you know it. Unless you fold under questioning, you will beat the rap.

The TSA couldn't catch a cold, much less a SSSS avoider, much much less a terrorist.

Monkeys banging on typewriters could write more intelligent security directives.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited Feb 07, 2004).]

That must be the case. I buy lots and lots of last minute one way tickets and have only been SSSS one time since 9/11. And that was 2 weeks ago in SF on a RT ticket.

My number was in the PNR already. They simply altered a leg, which then reflected my existing FF number before the ticket was issued. No difference.

i have been ssss a few times. I have tried to discern if there is a pattern to when I get it. Once I was very tight on my check in f(at that time 45 min. prior to departure was the stated policy, i was right at one hour trying to check bags curbside. I don't know whether that prompted of if I was randomly selected regardless) the other times have been when I have tried to check in and opt for a standby before going through security rather than at the gate. Not sure whether it was the standby or not. One standby, was a flight out of sfo that I was late for. I arrived at the ticket counter check in, prior to the flight but too late to effectively make it to the gate. they gave me a 'standby' boarding pass rather than a boarding pass for my actualy flight. it was ssss. my wife also got the same thing which suggested to me that it had to do with the standby nature not anything else.

denis, that is interesting. Perhaps the CRAPPS system sees the standby flight as a one-way ticket made on short notice, just like all the terrorists routinely make.

If others have experienced this, the smart thing may be to retain your original BP (make a copy if you do online checkin) and use it to pass through the checkpoint instead of using whatever standby BP they issue you.

The other smart thing to do would be to wait until you're inside security before attempting to make changes to your itinerary, possibly at the club, assuming you have the time to do so.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Oh good, we're back to the topic thread -rather than digressing on whether TSA knows what they're doing or not, which belong in Travel Security or Omni.

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Sharon

I got an SSSS on my DM card today while flying standby. But I'm not sure that it means extra harrassment....

The reason why I doubt it is that the TSA doesn't ever look at your BP, this is done by a UA or private security employee. So how would the screeners even know to give you an extra once over?

As there are no longer extra screenings at the gate, there doesn't seem to be any reason to fret about the SSSS on your BP.

Furthermore, when I traded my DM card for the actual BP the SSSS was no longer there.

Did you receive your scarlet-lettered SSSS DM card inside or outside of security?


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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I received it outside security at check-in.

Spif,
What I was thinking, and again this may have wound down as of now, is that say you did the refundable ticket bp. Say you presented your real bp with SSS, but it did not have initials, stamp, or whatever on it. Airline agent gets paranoid, calls the police, and the police bring you back to the security checkpoint and ask if any of the screeners recognize you. Then what if they search your bag (can they sarch your person w/out a warrant?) and find you have these two boarding passes. The authorities might be suspicious that you are trying to evade security checks by getting this second boarding pass without the SSS. Maybe they would let you go, or again maybe in this paranoid way they do things now, they would take you in for questioning. There have been a lot of people detained by Ashcroft's justice department for less things than trying to get two boarding passes to avoid extra security screening. Just imagine the paranoia if they found you with two boarding passes for two unrelated flights. Is this scenario ever likely to happen? No, in all likelyhood they will assume you got screened properly at the checkpoint. The airline or the authorities will probably never even figure out that you got two boarding passes for different flights to avoid the extra SSS prompted screening. But if in the remote chance they did find out, it would be very suspicious that you went through all sorts of trouble to avoid the extra screening. Think like a cop, they have to wonder, what the h**k is this person trying to hide from us not accepting the SSS screening, and why would he go to such trouble to avoid it. Surely because there is criminal activity of some sort. It is like if you ran the other way when you saw a cop, they would get suspicious no matter if you were doing anything wrong or not because the action seems suspicious. Again I am not saying this will happen, but if it did, I could see them taking someone in for hours of questioning.

I'll take my chances on that happening. I doubt the screeners could pick the screenees they screened 10 minutes ago out of a line up, much less 2 hours prior. Hell, those screeners are probably on break by then. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif As I stated, if one is paranoid, one can destroy the SSSS-free BP. Evidence gone.

As for the DM card with SSSS issued outside the checkpoint, some airports do not do anything with SSSS since they do not have a selectee lane. What airport were you flying out of?

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Hmmmm. What's really the point of SSSS? If I were up to no good and got an SSSS I probably would cancel the ticket due to "an emergency" and not go through security at all. My point is, why make it so obvious that someone is going to get "the treatment"......

Chris

Exactly! It's a stupid, expensive exercise in passenger harassment that provides no security value.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

Not anymore, apparently.

Asked, answered, discussed, digressed.

Moved to the Travel Security Forum. Please continue to follow it there.


Chuck
aka cblaisd
Moderator, United

Once a person arrives at a security checkpoint, they have consented (implied consent) to having their personal items as well as themselves searched and yes even without a warrant.

And if one has nothing to hide... they shouldn't have any problem with any of the processes like spiff does...

You realize of course that by posting on FT you have consented to wipe my nose whenever I decide to request it. Oh, you didn't know that? Too bad.

The truth is, implied consent isn't something you can make up as tempting as it is. It happens in the context of written law, like implied consent for DUI testing. If you look around you'll find that there is law behind that. It isn't just something that someone decided to throw around in a discussion forum.

Aside from that, you are just factually wrong. I can show up at a security check point and then decide not to be searched and then go home. So much for implied consent.


[This message has been edited by whirledtraveler (edited Feb 12, 2004).]

Spiff, thanks for the information. It has been sent to TSA Headquarters.

The agent at the gate is suppose to check the BP and if the BP has SSSS but isn't stamped or punched the agent needs to call for a TSA team to come to the gate.

There was a thread before which had the suggestion to find out what the stamp/punch was and do it yourself. A word of caution this is interfering with the screening process and is a federal crime.

What's to keep me from keeping editable PDF copies (on my computer) from every time I've successfully checked-in online?

Then if I get an error if I try OCI, simply edit an old boarding pass for that specific airline, changing dates, times, and flights. Check-in at the airport, get the SSSS'd boarding pass, and show the one I printed at home (the "fake" one) to get through security with SSSS?

It just goes to show how STUPID the system is when stuff like that works. I haven't had the chance to try it yet, but I still make a PDF copy of every BP I generate so that if such a situation arises, I can screw the system that tried to screw me.

What's to keep you from scanning money and try using that to buy the ticket? It's a crime, thats why.

Just so we know what's true and what's assumed, which specific law would someone be breaking if they alter non-flight information on a BP, and where is it written down?

I believe you are wrong...

If you show up at the checkpoint and cross over into the sterile area and refuse to be screened, you will be detained to talk to a police officer... If you are not smart enough to stay and leave the sterile area, you will be apprehended by airport police within seconds on your way out! You will be questioned as to why you refuse to be screened and what your intentions are... and probably prosecuted for interfering with a federal checkpoint... That is fact!

I've seen two passengers who refused screening in the checkpoint. They had to talk to a officer on why they didn't want to be involved in the screening and at that point the officer let them go.

I won't discuss why they didn't want to be screened as both reasons were deeply private and I completely understood why they refused.

Thats why I get upset with some of these policies everyday, because the people that make them don't seem to understand that it directly effects the public, which in turn effects us.

The operative phrase is "cross over into the sterile area." You added that. The original poster just said "show up at a security checkpoint." Even then, I think a PAX would have a case. The signs at MIA, at least, say that screening is voluntary and that they can refuse you access to your flight. They don't talk about a magical line on the floor.