CAPPS II
Nov 20, 2003 | 8:21 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MRY
Posts: 539
CAPPS II
Not sure what "formally" means?!? At any rate here's the link to the Denver Post story:
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...767935,00.html
"TSA officials say they're sensitive to civil liberties issues. CAPPS II will not store individual records in its system for more than a few days. In addition, the system won't formally consider travelers' ethnicity, race or religion."
http://www.denverpost.com/Stories/0,...767935,00.html
"TSA officials say they're sensitive to civil liberties issues. CAPPS II will not store individual records in its system for more than a few days. In addition, the system won't formally consider travelers' ethnicity, race or religion."
Nov 21, 2003 | 5:44 am
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
There's more --
"The system will also check for outstanding arrest warrants, which will allow aviation officials to make arrests unrelated to terrorism."
"The agency has made more than 800 arrests at checkpoints and intercepted more than 4 million prohibited items in the past year."
...and I wonder why I've flown only 12,000 miles this year.
Up yours, TSA...
"The system will also check for outstanding arrest warrants, which will allow aviation officials to make arrests unrelated to terrorism."
"The agency has made more than 800 arrests at checkpoints and intercepted more than 4 million prohibited items in the past year."
...and I wonder why I've flown only 12,000 miles this year.
Up yours, TSA...
Nov 21, 2003 | 8:46 am
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MRY
Posts: 539
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by FliesWay2Much:
There's more --
"The system will also check for outstanding arrest warrants, which will allow aviation officials to make arrests unrelated to terrorism."
"The agency has made more than 800 arrests at checkpoints and intercepted more than 4 million prohibited items in the past year."
...and I wonder why I've flown only 12,000 miles this year.
Up yours, TSA...
</font>
There's more --
"The system will also check for outstanding arrest warrants, which will allow aviation officials to make arrests unrelated to terrorism."
"The agency has made more than 800 arrests at checkpoints and intercepted more than 4 million prohibited items in the past year."
...and I wonder why I've flown only 12,000 miles this year.
Up yours, TSA...
</font>
Dead beat daddies
Speeding/parking tickets
littering ticket
registration violation ticket
Drunk Driving
Feeding the wildlife
disturbing the peace
It'll all be at their discretion.
Refuse to remove your shoes + outstanding speeding ticket= arrest by the TSA.
Nov 21, 2003 | 1:47 pm
#4
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 221
It sure is a short hop, skip and jump to looney tunes isn't it? Why is it that every new technology always has a way of bringing out those who are so sure the sky is going to fall right on them? They said the same things about television (they can watch us through the thing), radio (they can listen to us), cell phones (they can track our movements, listen in on us AND can see us through the new ones)!! Now we are worried because we might have a 10 year old parking ticket that is going to set off the alarms and cause us to be arrested!! My what a tangled web we have made for ourselves. I guess the robots will be the next big thing to come along to control us. ALL HAIL SIGMA PRIME!!!
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ACES II - ADVANCED CONCEPT EJECTION SYSTEM II. The number one ejection system in use today! "When things get hot, you can rely on ACES II"
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ACES II - ADVANCED CONCEPT EJECTION SYSTEM II. The number one ejection system in use today! "When things get hot, you can rely on ACES II"
Nov 21, 2003 | 1:55 pm
#5
Moderator: Coupon Connection & S.P.A.M
Join Date: May 2000
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
It sure is a short hop, skip and jump to looney tunes isn't it? Why is it that every new technology always has a way of bringing out those who are so sure the sky is going to fall right on them? They said the same things about television (they can watch us through the thing), radio (they can listen to us), cell phones (they can track our movements, listen in on us AND can see us through the new ones)!! Now we are worried because we might have a 10 year old parking ticket that is going to set off the alarms and cause us to be arrested!! My what a tangled web we have made for ourselves. I guess the robots will be the next big thing to come along to control us. ALL HAIL SIGMA PRIME!!!
</font>
It sure is a short hop, skip and jump to looney tunes isn't it? Why is it that every new technology always has a way of bringing out those who are so sure the sky is going to fall right on them? They said the same things about television (they can watch us through the thing), radio (they can listen to us), cell phones (they can track our movements, listen in on us AND can see us through the new ones)!! Now we are worried because we might have a 10 year old parking ticket that is going to set off the alarms and cause us to be arrested!! My what a tangled web we have made for ourselves. I guess the robots will be the next big thing to come along to control us. ALL HAIL SIGMA PRIME!!!
</font>
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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry
Nov 21, 2003 | 2:15 pm
#6
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 221
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Spiff:
Thank you once again for another content-free post.
</font>
Thank you once again for another content-free post.
</font>
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ACES II - ADVANCED CONCEPT EJECTION SYSTEM II. The number one ejection system in use today! "When things get hot, you can rely on ACES II"
Nov 21, 2003 | 3:40 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MRY
Posts: 539
Now I'm wondering:
If all these people (TSA, Ground Crew, SIDA, whom ever) have background checks done, then one of them gets a speeding ticket and subsequently fails to appear in court or pay the fine, it turns into a warrant 3 months later. Is the TSA going to arrest this guy? NO. Because he doesn't have to be screened (because of the flawless background checks performed 6 months beforehand) and will never get inputted into CAPPS II. How is this security? If CAPPS II begins causing flyers to be arrested then to be "fair" they should be required to run every person that has access to the airplane (EVERY ONE OF THEM!) through CAPPS II every day they show up for work including flight crew. Otherwise how would they know there is a criminal/potential terrorist in their midst?
If all these people (TSA, Ground Crew, SIDA, whom ever) have background checks done, then one of them gets a speeding ticket and subsequently fails to appear in court or pay the fine, it turns into a warrant 3 months later. Is the TSA going to arrest this guy? NO. Because he doesn't have to be screened (because of the flawless background checks performed 6 months beforehand) and will never get inputted into CAPPS II. How is this security? If CAPPS II begins causing flyers to be arrested then to be "fair" they should be required to run every person that has access to the airplane (EVERY ONE OF THEM!) through CAPPS II every day they show up for work including flight crew. Otherwise how would they know there is a criminal/potential terrorist in their midst?
Nov 21, 2003 | 10:50 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2000
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
It sure is a short hop, skip and jump to looney tunes isn't it? Why is it that every new technology always has a way of bringing out those who are so sure the sky is going to fall right on them? They said the same things about television (they can watch us through the thing), radio (they can listen to us), cell phones (they can track our movements, listen in on us AND can see us through the new ones)!! Now we are worried because we might have a 10 year old parking ticket that is going to set off the alarms and cause us to be arrested!! My what a tangled web we have made for ourselves. I guess the robots will be the next big thing to come along to control us. ALL HAIL SIGMA PRIME!!!</font>
It sure is a short hop, skip and jump to looney tunes isn't it? Why is it that every new technology always has a way of bringing out those who are so sure the sky is going to fall right on them? They said the same things about television (they can watch us through the thing), radio (they can listen to us), cell phones (they can track our movements, listen in on us AND can see us through the new ones)!! Now we are worried because we might have a 10 year old parking ticket that is going to set off the alarms and cause us to be arrested!! My what a tangled web we have made for ourselves. I guess the robots will be the next big thing to come along to control us. ALL HAIL SIGMA PRIME!!!</font>
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Don't feed the trolls.
Nov 22, 2003 | 10:39 am
#9
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 221
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
Question: Do you place your postal mail in envelopes, and if so, why?
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Question: Do you place your postal mail in envelopes, and if so, why?
</font>
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ACES II - ADVANCED CONCEPT EJECTION SYSTEM II. The number one ejection system in use today! "When things get hot, you can rely on ACES II"
Nov 22, 2003 | 11:26 am
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
Question: Do you place your postal mail in envelopes, and if so, why?
</font>
Question: Do you place your postal mail in envelopes, and if so, why?
</font>
Now, if somebody could tell me why it easier to get into jail than an airplane, something might make sense.
Nov 22, 2003 | 12:19 pm
#11
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Commuting around the mid-atlantic and rust-belt on any number of RJs
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Mailing the letter from a box away from your home is not the issue. You could simply tape the corners of your letter and put a stamp on it. You put it in an envelope--what you you have to hide? If you had nothing to hide, you would not put your mail in envelopes.
The point I'm trying to make here is that while Spiff is often very vocal about avoiding a slippery slope erosion of our rights, he's absolutey right. If you have nothing to hide, of course, you won't mind mailing all mail on postcards and you won't mind submitting to a search of your home without a warrant, and you certainly won't mind being arrested and not getting a lawyer for a few days while you discuss the issue with the police, right?
Just so that you are aware, with older cell phones (no U-911 equipped phone), any agency that can obtain the cooperation of your phone carrier can pinpoint your location to 50 square miles or thereabouts. If you have one of the phones with the U-911 GPS receiver, they can indeed pinpoint your location.
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Don't feed the trolls.
The point I'm trying to make here is that while Spiff is often very vocal about avoiding a slippery slope erosion of our rights, he's absolutey right. If you have nothing to hide, of course, you won't mind mailing all mail on postcards and you won't mind submitting to a search of your home without a warrant, and you certainly won't mind being arrested and not getting a lawyer for a few days while you discuss the issue with the police, right?
Just so that you are aware, with older cell phones (no U-911 equipped phone), any agency that can obtain the cooperation of your phone carrier can pinpoint your location to 50 square miles or thereabouts. If you have one of the phones with the U-911 GPS receiver, they can indeed pinpoint your location.
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Don't feed the trolls.
Nov 22, 2003 | 2:28 pm
#12
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 221
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ClueByFour:
Mailing the letter from a box away from your home is not the issue. You could simply tape the corners of your letter and put a stamp on it. You put it in an envelope--what you you have to hide? If you had nothing to hide, you would not put your mail in envelopes.
The point I'm trying to make here is that while Spiff is often very vocal about avoiding a slippery slope erosion of our rights, he's absolutey right. If you have nothing to hide, of course, you won't mind mailing all mail on postcards and you won't mind submitting to a search of your home without a warrant, and you certainly won't mind being arrested and not getting a lawyer for a few days while you discuss the issue with the police, right?
Just so that you are aware, with older cell phones (no U-911 equipped phone), any agency that can obtain the cooperation of your phone carrier can pinpoint your location to 50 square miles or thereabouts. If you have one of the phones with the U-911 GPS receiver, they can indeed pinpoint your location.
</font>
Mailing the letter from a box away from your home is not the issue. You could simply tape the corners of your letter and put a stamp on it. You put it in an envelope--what you you have to hide? If you had nothing to hide, you would not put your mail in envelopes.
The point I'm trying to make here is that while Spiff is often very vocal about avoiding a slippery slope erosion of our rights, he's absolutey right. If you have nothing to hide, of course, you won't mind mailing all mail on postcards and you won't mind submitting to a search of your home without a warrant, and you certainly won't mind being arrested and not getting a lawyer for a few days while you discuss the issue with the police, right?
Just so that you are aware, with older cell phones (no U-911 equipped phone), any agency that can obtain the cooperation of your phone carrier can pinpoint your location to 50 square miles or thereabouts. If you have one of the phones with the U-911 GPS receiver, they can indeed pinpoint your location.
</font>
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ACES II - ADVANCED CONCEPT EJECTION SYSTEM II. The number one ejection system in use today! "When things get hot, you can rely on ACES II"
Nov 22, 2003 | 7:29 pm
#13
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MRY
Posts: 539
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ACES II:
Yes I do, but I always mail it from a public mailbox away from my home. Afterall, "they" are watching us all the time.
Just like I am not buying into the cell phone "craze." I sound like my grandfather...
</font>
Yes I do, but I always mail it from a public mailbox away from my home. Afterall, "they" are watching us all the time.
Just like I am not buying into the cell phone "craze." I sound like my grandfather...
</font>
Nov 28, 2003 | 6:28 pm
#14
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,673
"If all these people (TSA, Ground Crew, SIDA, whom ever) have background checks done, then one of them gets a speeding ticket and subsequently fails to appear in court or pay the fine, it turns into a warrant 3 months later. Is the TSA going to arrest this guy?"
They get arrested and fired.
They get arrested and fired.
Nov 29, 2003 | 9:38 pm
#15
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: IAD
Programs: *wood Gold
Posts: 1,780
I am opposed to the CAPPS II system. The government has no right to track any citizen's movements within this country, regardless of whether or not they have an active arrest warrant, an unpaid speeding ticket, or an unpaid littering fine. They should not be allowed to use the TSA and the airlines as proxies for law enforcement agents.
There is a legitimate concern here. If the airlines and TSA are allowed to act as law enforcement agents AND they are allowed to search through our bags and search us at checkpoints, then this could be construed as a violation of our Constitutional right that protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. This is a large part of why the CAPPS II system should not be put in place and used.
Will this allow terrorists to slip through the cracks that otherwise might have been caught? Sure, that's quite possible. But I'll sooner accept this risk, along with my privacy rights being left intact, when given a choice. There are other ways to catch terrorists, and most of them don't involve invading my privacy and treating me and millions of others like potential criminals.
EDIT: This new E-911 crap on cell phones is another thing that I'm not too wild about. When adding this "feature" to cell phones, all manufacturers should have been required to include a setting on the phone that would have allowed the user to turn off all location services when making all calls-- include calls to 911. This is the only true way to prevent our privacy rights from being eroded.
[This message has been edited by clrankin (edited Nov 29, 2003).]
There is a legitimate concern here. If the airlines and TSA are allowed to act as law enforcement agents AND they are allowed to search through our bags and search us at checkpoints, then this could be construed as a violation of our Constitutional right that protects us from unreasonable search and seizure. This is a large part of why the CAPPS II system should not be put in place and used.
Will this allow terrorists to slip through the cracks that otherwise might have been caught? Sure, that's quite possible. But I'll sooner accept this risk, along with my privacy rights being left intact, when given a choice. There are other ways to catch terrorists, and most of them don't involve invading my privacy and treating me and millions of others like potential criminals.
EDIT: This new E-911 crap on cell phones is another thing that I'm not too wild about. When adding this "feature" to cell phones, all manufacturers should have been required to include a setting on the phone that would have allowed the user to turn off all location services when making all calls-- include calls to 911. This is the only true way to prevent our privacy rights from being eroded.
[This message has been edited by clrankin (edited Nov 29, 2003).]