Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 17184258)

Just as the TSA has zero business looking for drugs in someone's bag, or even trying to determine whether something they see is drugs, they have no business speculating on or reporting on someone's immigration status.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

Its not "snitching"; its due diligence.

You are correct, having the card and attempting to use it is not illegal (as far as I know, heck as of 2002/3 about a dozen states allowed people to use these cards to get drivers license).

But Section 8 USC 1324 makes it a crime, when you reasonably suspect someone of being illegal, to give them aid. I and other TSOs must report it to a LEO (actually contact a STSO, who upon verifying what we have seen, contact a LEO).

You can argue all you want, but it is reasonable for me to suspect that only those who are here illegally will have and use this card (take the person who posted the question that started the current conversation).

Specifically from Section 8 USC 1324:

"(ii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, transports, or moves or attempts to transport or move such alien within the United States by means of transportation or otherwise, in furtherance of such violation of law;"

and...

"(iii) knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals, harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation;"

Now, you may not like this, but there it is. Yes, TSA will contact a LEO. We are required to by law, as it is VERY reasonable to suspect this person is an illegal immigrant.

Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 17185337)

Even if you called a LEO, what could he/she do? They cannot investigate someone's immigration status based on mere suspicion that they are an illegal immigrant. Arizona just passed a law trying to give them the authority to do so, but it was struck down in court (and is being appealed). So assuming that the Supreme Court doesn't overturn that ruling, law enforcement cannot investigate anyone's immigration status because of a "suspicion", no matter how "reasonable" it is. The person who presented a Matricula Consular at the checkpoint would be free to turn around and leave, and neither the TSA nor local PD could detain them.

That's my understanding of the law, but we all know that TSA and police don't always follow the laws. Does anyone have an actual example of an illegal immigrant trying to go through a checkpoint?

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17186092)

In any event, why would one present the consular card as ID at the checkpoint? Its not on the list of acceptable IDs, and doing so is the equivalent to getting pulled over by the police, and handing them a fake driver's licence you made at home.

Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 17184258)

This should not be a debate on immigration policy. Take that to OMNI P/R

Originally Posted by N1120A (Post 17184258)

Just as the TSA has zero business looking for drugs in someone's bag, or even trying to determine whether something they see is drugs, they have no business speculating on or reporting on someone's immigration status. TSA are not "law enforcement", they are government employees tasked with preventing WEI from getting on airplanes.

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17185171)

Yes they are required by law to report suspicious illegal activity to law enforcement.

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17185171)

While they themselves are not peace officers, that doesn't mean they "have no business trying to determine whether something they see is drugs".

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17186092)

The TSA should call CBP to investigate into someone's immigration status, not the local police.

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17186092)

In any event, why would one present the consular card as ID at the checkpoint? Its not on the list of acceptable IDs, and doing so is the equivalent to getting pulled over by the police, and handing them a fake driver's licence you made at home.

Originally Posted by König (Post 17187059)

Again, your equivalence is flawed. Matricula consular card is not illegal - it might be completely useless, but it is not illegal. Making a fake driving licence at home and presenting it to the police is very much illegal. Do you see the difference?

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17185171)

Yes they are required by law to report suspicious illegal activity to law enforcement.. While they themselves are not peace officers, that doesn't mean they "have no business trying to determine whether something they see is drugs".

Originally Posted by Ari (Post 17187291)

That's who they would call. A BP, ICE or regular CBP officer would be the one to respond.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

Its not "snitching"; its due diligence.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

You are correct, having the card and attempting to use it is not illegal (as far as I know, heck as of 2002/3 about a dozen states allowed people to use these cards to get drivers license).

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

But Section 8 USC 1324 makes it a crime, when you reasonably suspect someone of being illegal, to give them aid.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

I and other TSOs must report it to a LEO (actually contact a STSO, who upon verifying what we have seen, contact a LEO).

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

You can argue all you want, but it is reasonable for me to suspect that only those who are here illegally will have and use this card (take the person who posted the question that started the current conversation).

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

Now, you may not like this, but there it is. Yes, TSA will contact a LEO.

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17183898)

We are required to by law, as it is VERY reasonable to suspect this person is an illegal immigrant.

Originally Posted by alexb133 (Post 17185171)

Yes they are required by law to report suspicious illegal activity to law enforcement.. While they themselves are not peace officers, that doesn't mean they "have no business trying to determine whether something they see is drugs".

Originally Posted by cbn42 (Post 17185337)

Even if you called a LEO, what could he/she do? They cannot investigate someone's immigration status based on mere suspicion that they are an illegal immigrant. Arizona just passed a law trying to give them the authority to do so, but it was struck down in court (and is being appealed). So assuming that the Supreme Court doesn't overturn that ruling, law enforcement cannot investigate anyone's immigration status because of a "suspicion", no matter how "reasonable" it is. The person who presented a Matricula Consular at the checkpoint would be free to turn around and leave, and neither the TSA nor local PD could detain them.

That's my understanding of the law, but we all know that TSA and police don't always follow the laws. Does anyone have an actual example of an illegal immigrant trying to go through a checkpoint?

Originally Posted by Ari (Post 17188228)

Not really; "due diligence" implies that some sort of "diligence" is actually "due".

What the TSA could do is (1) ask the passenger to present alternate identification that meets TSA standards or (2) allow the passenger to attempt the identification verification procedures for those without IDs. If (1) and (2) above fail, then the TSA could infom the passenger that he cannot be cleared, but he may return with acceptable identification. The passenger walks away, and the TSA has done its job by keeping the person out of the secure area (save ID debate for another thread, please).

But the TSA wants to go above and beyond-- not just turn someone without valid identification away, but call LE to investigate what they believe might be illegal. That's snitching, not due diligence as the only diligence due is making sure TSA security procedures are complied with.



None do anymore, thank god.



Just to be clear, turning someone away from a checkpoint without reporting anything does not violate 8 USC 1324. (I know that it might seem like it would meet the standards for the "conceals, harbors, or shields from detection" part, but it doesn't. The law recognizes a difference between turning a blind eye to something illegal and actually participating in it and concealing it or shielding it from detection).



By LEO, you mean CBP/BP/ICE, not the local law, right? (Maybe it varies by airport based on 287g local law and presence of CBP)?



I think it is reasonable to suspect that (but I'm not 100% sure of that as a legal matter). I would say that presentation of a Matricula Consular is reasonable suspicion for an authorized individual to investigate immigration status.



If the person is not detained and their property not detained including not detaining the Matricula Consular card while LE is called, then I have no legal problem with it. If the person is told to remain, or the card is retained by the TSA while waiting for LE, then I do have a problem with it. As long as the person is free to go then there I have no legal problem with calling LE.



You are not required by law to do so simply because turning a blind eye to something is not the same as concealing it or shielding it from detection. (The law does not place an affirmative burden to report, just not to help).

Originally Posted by bocastephen (Post 17198827)

Nonsense.

No such law requires this - it's an administrative policy which should be quashed..and no, they have absolutely no business conducting any investigation outside the scope of their search, specifically related to aviation security.

Originally Posted by Ari (Post 17188228)

You are not required by law to do so simply because turning a blind eye to something is not the same as concealing it or shielding it from detection. (The law does not place an affirmative burden to report, just not to help).

Originally Posted by SATTSO (Post 17199991)

As I noted above, we ARE required to report such suspected illegal activity, and to be honestly blunt, arguing about it here will not change that. What directs us to do so has the force of law, and to do otherwise is to face termination. If you do not like such policies, I honestly suggest attempting to have them changed.