j_the_p

I couldn't find this posted anywhere else...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...port-1.3027604

This was excessive use of force. 4 officers should be able to subdue and handcuff 1 man without resorting to using a taser.

Yoshi212

He's lucky this wasn't in the US. He'd be dead and his family would be sent for rendition 'therapy'.
It does seem they tried to talk him down and when the man couldn't/wouldn't communicate he was tasered and apprehended. Being tasered hurts a lot, we had to do it for training, but I'd take it over 4 potentially overzealous, armed (hands, batons & firearms) officers taking me down for not being violent.
Your view, guessing you're Canadian based on your location as YYZ, is valid but I'm not seeing it as excessive force when an attempt is made, the suspect is non-communicative and the suspect wasn't abused. If they had continued to use the taser after the suspect was down or beaten him I'd be right beside you with the excessive force claim.

j_the_p

I disagree with you. The man looked confused. Possibly didn't understand English. He's in an airport and he'd already been cleared by security. So he doesn't have a bomb, a gun, or anything of the sort. He has a briefcase and he's surrounded by 4 supposedly well trained officers. Tasering him seemed excessive.

Yoshi212

It's far from ideal, I'd like to see it workout with the man unharmed and the officers resting easy but that isn't the way law enforcement works. Firstly we don't know why he was denied boarding and his other behavior. In the US, and I'm sure our policing mentality has spread North, is to end any perceived threat as soon as possible. They did so in a non-lethal way that deescalated the situation.
If the 4 officers had tried to take him down and he resisted/fought back do you think it would have ended as peacefully?

j_the_p

Neither of us know all the facts, obviously. I'm just going on what I see in a video. And by that video, it doesn't appear that the man was threatening. So why the need for a weapon? Because police now have multiple weapons and it's easier to use a taser (weapon) than to move in, manually subdue and handcuff. It's the easy way out, not the humane way out.

Section 107

When to use what mechanism of force and how is determined by each law enforcement agency. Unless one has been through specifically that agency's training on use of force, then stating how or what should be done is gratiuitous. Its similar to asking LEOs to use "warning shots" or just "aim for the foot" - those are only used in movies and on TV.

Badenoch

The taser isn't excessive force in this circumstance. The suspect was large, uncooperative, appeared agitated and refused police commands to drop his brief case. Had the officers went hands on with the guy the risk of injury would have been higher to both the suspects and the officers. The moral of the story is that when the people in the uniforms give you an order it's always best to comply. If you don't speak the local language and the police are yelling at you drop what's in your hands, raise them and go prone on the ground.

cdn1

Robert Dziekański was also tasered, and he died at the hands of Canadian RCMP(police) at vancouver airport. He was arriving as a new immigrant. (From Poland, a reasonably "safe" country)

König

I think many people forget or simply are not aware that originally taser was supposed to be used as a replacement of a more lethal force - firearms. These days police is quick to use taser in a situation that would never warrant using deadly force before it was invented.

j_the_p

This exactly. We've become desensitized to the use of the taser. No big deal, he was uncooperative, so taser him. Pats on the back all around, let's have a beer.

chollie

Training is also clearly lacking. Over and over, someone gets tased once, screams, starts writhing in pain and gets tased again and again because s/he can't immediately stop moving.

No one should be allowed to carry a taser unless s/he has first been video'd getting a full blast while being shouted at to hold still.

Badenoch

It is not a replacement for deadly force. No one takes a Taser to gun fight or even a knife fight. On the force continuum, a Taser is closer to impact weapons or chemical sprays.

Section 107

In all the LEAs I know of an officer MUST personally experience the Taser before being certified to carry/use one.

Same thing with pepper spray.

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USCG LEO's must enjoy the pepper spray experience. The Taser experience is "optional."

Ditto for Michigan and Ohio LEO's.

zitsky

Are there any examples of people who surrendered but were tased anyway?