GUWonder

I too doubt the current SCOTUS is going to rock the boat in a major way in this area.

The judge de facto stipulated that he considers the CBP policy lawful/constitutional. If the judge considered it as being possibly unlawful/unconstitutional, the judge had other options which he may have pursued but doesn't seem to have done.

There are some who think that there is a real paranoia that has taken root within the majority of relevant federal judges in the NY and DC/VA area, and so it's highly unlikely that in this area the government is going to lose any power which it has already been practicing for years.

That's all I'm going to say on this matter, when it comes to the court aspect.

greggarious

You shouldn't have given your password. I know of at least two non-profits that would love to help take a test case through the courts. While they have the right to search, they can't require you to give the password.

N965VJ

I, too, would decline to give any passwords. I would also expect that my laptop and phones would be taken, and when and if they are returned, may not be in the same condition. Sending CBP on a wild goose chase after nothing would be fun.

My laptop is a "dumb terminal". Nothing is stored on it that is not in the cloud.

AllieKat

I shouldn't have said they "can't ask" - what I meant, obviously, was that they can't require, per my understanding, you to divulge passwords. Though I believe they CAN require you to enter them.

FredAnderssen

Can you clarify this last part? You seem to have contradictory assertions here.

AllieKat

There's a huge difference between requiring you to ENTER the password, and requiring you to TELL THEM the password (which for many people, who follow less than ideal security practices, also reveals many other passwords).

FredAnderssen

Sorry, I'm still not seeing the difference, which should be clear if it were so huge. Please break it down for me.

I can communicate with my mouth or I can communicate with my fingers, but the end result is the same. As far as case law is concerned, the courts have required one to enter a passport ONLY if it's a foregone conclusion as to what is contained on the computer.

AllieKat

Okay, if I type my password they get one-time access to my device. If I give them the password they get indefinite access if they seize my device PLUS they get a decent guess at what my other passwords might be, since many people reuse passwords.

That's a huge difference in scope.

FredAnderssen

Okay, I'll play along. My computer, for example, has a log-in password to bypass the whole disk encryption. That password is reused in my 1password keychain (not the safest scenario, but humor me). If I give them the password, then they have the ability to access my computer. They then can try this same password on my 1password file, which will give them access to all of my passwords.

If I merely type in my password, they will then have access to just my computer, and not all my passwords in my 1password keychain. Am I getting the gist of what you're saying?

Now we get to the interesting part. You state that:

So, now that I've divulged my password by entering it at log-in (since it's required as you state), what's to keep them from REQUIRING me to enter it again in the next instance, i.e. to access my 1password keychain?

I'm still not telling them my password (a no-no in your opinion), but I am entering my password (allowed in your opinion) again.

Please list a court opinion where it's a one-shot only thing. While you're at it, list the court opinion where you differentiate between stating and entering passwords.

tanja

I am so happy that I got computers in 2 countries. So I dont have to worry Hope not at least. I would never /ever tell anybody my passwords.

AllieKat

My source is the ACLU: https://www.aclunc.org/blog/privacy-...tional-borders

I said NOTHING about it being a "one time" thing - it specifically was that they can have you enter any decryption password. 1password encrypts the rest of your passwords in local storage, they absolutely CAN, if I understand correctly, make you decrypt that, thus you would definitely be best NOT to have your passwords stored on your computer in any form (encrypted or not).

FlyIgglesFly

I have a beat up iPad that will need to be replaced soon. I plan to, if flagged and asked to unlock it, smash it over a table/on the ground until restrained from doing so. Then say "good luck" to them.

There's nothing bad on it, but I think that would be a fun way to get rid of a cracked screen 1st gen iPad. Making someone sift through the pieces, then put it together, then unlock it...only to find out that I'm active on Flyertalk and not very good at Angry Birds.

FredAnderssen

Your source is from 2008. There is a lot of new case law, as recent as just a couple of days ago, that you should take a look at. Much of it is linked in this thread.

Even the ACLU article you linked doesn't say this. There are a lot of "mays". For example: "And if you try to keep that information private through the use of encryption, you may face a further problem with US Customs." and "US Customs may attempt to view those materials." "if you have data on your laptop, US customs may try look at it".

It also quotes a case where the government WANTS to compel you to provide your password. The ACLU article continues with: "If you are a US citizen, saying no may lead to you losing your laptop." Well, this is obvious in this thread already.

You understand incorrectly. The article you posted says nothing about being compelled to provide your password, whether spoken or typed.

ahhodro2001

I was able to open bank accounts at another bank. Chase bank closed my account without informing me (the letter arrived 10 days after the closure). I google my name, and I get is a guy in Germany that records lots of songs on youtube.
2 weeks ago, I traveled to Florida and entered my Redress number when I purchased the ticket, going thru TSA was a breeze. This time, Expedia did not enter the number and I got SSSS on every boarding pass I received.
I have never been stopped on an outbound flight (Thank Jesus) !

I was with my family in Cancun Jan 2013 and I did not get secondaries. This all started on Feb. 2013.

I talked to a lawyer to help me write a letter to my congressman, and his answer was" Save your money and efforts; our government has a problem in their system and no one knows how to fix this problem. They will continue to stop you until the problem gets fixed on its own. "

Do you guys think this is a valid statement ?

N965VJ

Being in a room full of guys with Sigs and Glocks on their belts, it would probably be best to drop it on the floor, step on it firmly, and say "Oopsie!"