Yesterday flying home on DL from TPA to LGA, at gate E70 there were 2 TSO's, one female and one male standing near the entryway door to the jet bridge, I didn’t know what they were up to, so I just walked up close to the gate to check out the situation, I saw they had set up a ETD machine on a small table next to the boarding door to the jetway, so I assumed they were going to do some carry on luggage inspections. They were there at least 45 minutes before the flight boarded and all they did was stand around and do nothing but chat during this time

The TSO's waited until most of the first class passengers had boarded before they made their first move, they first stopped a young lady who was holding about a 20 ounce bottle of water in her hand, the female TSO asked her to put the bottle of water on the table and spread her arms and the female TSO did a fairly complete patdown of her body, she did not check the inside of her waist band of her slacks or pat her hair down and surprisingly did not check the contents of her water bottle.

After the female TSO completed her patdown, the male TSO rubbed the female TSOgloves with a ETD swatch and tested it in the machine, one the test was clear, they let the female passenger board and then he stopped a male passenger who was totally oblivious to what was going on and walked right in front of the male TSO as he was boarding and the male TSO then proceeded to do his rubdown of the male passenger

I was traveling with my wife and my cousin and her husband and I held them back from boarding until they grabbed the male passenger and then we entered the general boarding line when the GA announced zone 1 and zone 2 boarding. I was scolded by the GA that we should have been using the Sky Priority lane instead of the general boarding lane as our boarding passes were being scanned, but the TSO had set up their table next to the SP boarding lane and the first passengers they grabbed were entering through the SP lane so we boarded with the rest of the passengers instead.

Another total waste of taxpayers money.

Mr. Elliott

Disgusting.

Will one of the TSOs on this board please tell us what rights passengers have once they have cleared the checkpoint? What would happen if the passengers being pulled aside at the gate refused to consent to the patdown? Can the TSO deny them entry onto the plane? If so, under what authority?

Can a TSO just approach anyone in the sterile area of the airport and demand that they spread their arms and feet and be patted down?

I think that if I were traveling myself, and did not absolutely have to be at my destination that day, this is one of these situations where I would have said that enough was enough, and refused to consent to any patdown outside of the checkpoint. Absolutely *%(#*!* disgusting. No other way to describe it.

Did you hear that after the beginning of the year TSO officers will be flying on selected flights and will be conducting patdowns on selected passengers in-flight. (Just kidding but hey you never know)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTnAbIk3j9w

It's time for the lawsuits to flood the TSA. Even if they somehow are successful in having the cases dismissed or claiming "qualified immunity" - the sheer number of complaints/suits that could be generated by the flying public would quickly begin to outpace the agency's resources to deal with them.

If frequent flers alone had the courage to resist these efforts openly - and file the necessary complaints with TSA's internal affairs department and local police at the airports - something would give. As long as complaceny and acceptance by the flying public is the norm - the TSAwill only become more bold in their efforts to violate civil rights in the name of "safety".

Maybe this article will answer some of your questions.....

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/q...c99DADfZNBjI4J

The term for a TSA employee at the checkpoint is TSO. Other, insulting names are not permitted on FT.

thanks

squeakr

co Mod TS/S

I can't speak from a position of authority, yet I interpret the current security situation as... if you wish to enter or remain in the sterile area, you must submit to any and all security protocols defined by any individual TSA employee (AIT, WTMD, ETD, patdown, dogs, thermal, etc). This will happen at the entry point, and could happen in the terminal, at the gate, or anywhere else that the TSA defines as the sterile area. To refuse any security protocol will result in the refusal of entry, or ejection from the sterile area.

The message is always the same... it's no longer D.Y.W.T.F.T., it's... any passenger that refuses any security protocol will be denied access to the plane. The only way to get out of a random patdown at the gate is to leave the premises (and presumbly, miss your flight). I'm really suprised they haven't ramped up gate checks, at hubs... just pick the connecting pax, who are connecting... how many people are going to vote with their feet, and leave the sterile area... in a connecting city?

My first experience with airport pat-downs of any kind was witnessing one of these state-sanctioned assaults at LAS in 2009. I was shocked, as I sat waiting for boarding to begin, to see TSOs frisking a traveler and searching her carry-ons at a table they set up in the boarding lane. But the shock only lasted for about 10 seconds, and then outrage and fury took its place.

I made up my mind, right then and there, that I was NEVER going to willingly submit to a physical search of my person. Whether you call them frisks, pat-downs, rubdowns, or any other euphemism, they are still unwarranted, causeless, invasive searches which violate the 4th Amendment and far exceed the limited scope of a legally permitted administrative search, unless they are performed with some specific, articulable probable cause.

I was pretty scared in 2009, not of the search, but of the long drive in a rental car from Las Vegas to Baltimore - because I had decided that I would drive home rather than allow any government actor to put their hands on my person. And I was fully prepared and willing to back that up. I remain so prepared to this day.

I don't fly much, so thus far I have been able to avoid getting stuck. But one day, unless the American public wakes up and stops their government from stripping their rights and freedoms away in the name of some bogus "safety" or "security", my luck will run out, and I will wind up making a very long drive instead of taking a short flight.

I just hope it doesn't happen when I'm on the other side of the country...

WillCAD, I respect your principled position. Unfortunately not many people have the option to just drive across country instead of taking a flight.

When they were ready to do their pat downs, I did see both screeners take new gloves out of a box, as the female screener patted down the female passenger, the male screener stood around and when she finished, the male screener swabbed her gloves and tested the swab on the ETD machine. Then they switched positions and the male screener did the pat down on a male passenger with the female screener standing there just watching.

Once they started on the male passenger, I immediately got on the boarding line and they were still at it when we cleared the GA scanner and entered to jetway, so I do not know if the screeners changed their gloves after finishing with the male passenger. It appeared they were alternating between female and male passengers.

I would assume they did not change their gloves, whenever I have had my carry on luggage selected for inspection, I have had to ask the screener to change their gloves, they never do it voluntarily.

Mr. Elliott

Bolding mine: It's from the first post in the sticky at the top of the forum page

+1. Much respect, WillCAD. I struggle with this, and tend to go back and forth between your position and "I'll never let TSA impair my freedom to travel!"

I haven't had to opt out yet, but my day is coming. I think I would draw the line at a gate patdown or ID check, though.

In another thread in the "debate" subsection of TS/S, I asked one of our self-proclaimed TSOs a similar question, as regards TSOs' claimed right of detention, and TSOs' abilities once you've cleared the checkpoint and are in the sterile area.

No response yet.

Question, since I've never had to do this: if you are denied boarding at a connecting airport because you refuse a TSA gate search (or, for that matter, you simply missed the flight because you became too engulfed in a newspaper), does your checked luggage get pulled off the plane, and are you able to retrieve it at that airport?

I suspect that if you just missed the flight (sleepeing, eating, left security then came back late, stuck in the lounge, etc), the bags would stay on the original flight. Believe positive-match is only for international routes.

If you refused the gate search and asked to be escorted out, and your boarding pass showed NCL (no checked luggage), I'd go with you'd walk. If the BP showed checked luggage, I then suspect they'd pull the luggage, just for the novelty of the event (someone actually saying "no").

Oddly, imo, this wouldn't be too disruptive in a flight leaving a hub... a hub is usualy heading towards a final destination, so it would delay only final arrival (ok, unless it's a long delay, to a cruise departure location). What would really be distruptive if it was a flight heading towards a hub, in that if you lost an hour pulling bags, there'd be a lot of potentially missed connections. That would be disruptive.

Yet... can you truly refuse a gate search? Seem to remember that the rule is, you can't stop a search once it's been initiated at the entry point. Even if you want to leave the entry point, they get to finish the search. Yet does that only apply at the entry point? Or does starting at the entry point mean that "search has initiated" through the entire sterile area, and not being able to exit even includes the gate search?

It would be interesting to see that one tested.