Comcerneddisabledflier

So I know I will fail. When I flew earlier this week, the pat down was too touchy with my ostomy. If it was only slightly more full--something I really cannot control--it could've leaked.

I would much prefer just to have a physical strip search where I take my clothes off and let the TSA touch them galore, as this would prevent any FECES from leaking on to me. Can I request that? If so, who do I need to talk to to request that? And finally, do you have to take your underwear off if so (I would prefer to keep it on, but to avoid a leak, I would take it off...I just want to be prepared).

TheGolfWidow

Asking for your medical needs to be met at the checkpoint is like politely asking a playground bully to return your ball. In either case, you are dissing authority. It doesn't matter that your bully could create a situation in which he might expose himself to your waste (what's a little waste, anyway, when you're standing in front of a cancer box day-in-day-out?); what matters is that (s)he tells you what to do. (And, yes, you and I both know the difference between asking the screener for assistance and telling him/her what to do. WE are not the problem here.)

You would be better off formulating a plan using reverse psychology and/or a plan to deal with the aftermath of whatever they might dish out to you.

sbagdon

You can request anything you'd like ("I'd like a yellow sky today"), yet you have to do whatever is prescribed at that moment. Medical conditions have been getting a lot of press lately, so if you're truly concerned, getting in touch with the office of the FSD before travel might help smooth things according to the process TSA claims is implemented. Then again, there's that Sawyer double-whammy.

chollie

Agree. Just on principle, I think many TSOs will refuse a request like this.

It's not that they don't have authority to strip you to the skin. They do. They just don't want you 'empowered' to request/suggest a screening method that might (gasp) benefit you as well as satisfy screening requirements.

Now I know one TSO (alleged or real) has posted that his airport allows pax to 'opt-in' to the AIT or the grope. They are not permitted to choose the WTMD.

The argument (which in the case of a strip search, makes no sense) is that if a pax has a preferred screening method, it may be because the pax has figured out a way to 'beat' that screening method, so you need to upset his plans and offer him anything but his requested method.

Unfortunately, this doesn't explain why there are reports of folks who partially disrobed (removed a dress to reveal a bikini, took off a shirt to reveal a bare torso) were told to put their clothes back on so they could be groped. That had nothing to do with efficient and effective screening - that had everything to do with TSOs on a power trip.

For too many TSOs (and their 'superiors'), effective screening takes a back seat to power trips. A person in a bikini or without a shirt is clearly easier to visually clear, but some TSOs see it as a pax power grab, because if the pax is scantily clad, the TSO (in theory) isn't supposed to be stroking and groping bare skin (well, except for the neckline, waistband, hair and face). This means that by dressing scantily, the pax is 'controlling' the available territory to be groped. That is a direct challenge to the 'authoritay' of some TSOs.

Caradoc

I don't think so. I'm pretty sure that an actual full-blown strip search exceeds the boundaries of "administrative search."

Have there been any court decisions actually stating that the TSA is allowed to order someone to remove all of their clothing?

chollie

I'm not going to dig it out, but in another thread I posted about the 'drape' - I wondered if they actually stocked them (I wonder how much the taxpayer is soaked for each 'drape'), if they were re-used, etc. Someone posted a link to the TSA website (for what that's worth) that says they will provide the pax with a drape.

That could happen with a backroom search of a woman in a pencil skirt.

The key might be 'administrative search'. It may be that under certain circumstances (whenever they want), TSA can escalate -ie, somehow, you're beyond the administrative search level.

But there is a super-duper search, don't know the name, that's been posted about. It is mandatory back room. IIRC, 'ordinary' TSOs aren't trained/allowed to do it. I think it takes higher level TSOs, possibly management presence also, and yes, I think some of our resident TSOs (real or alleged) have made it pretty clear that although SSI won't say exactly what's handled how, nothing is left to the imagination. Think it generates serious reporting too, and I don't believe you are allowed a witness.

sbagdon

I'm going to have to disagree with you slightly, on the scale, not the scope. I'm starting to think that the numbers are 10% of the TSO's are on a power-trip, and 90% just want to keep their jobs. I suspect it's beaten into them that they will perform their job, exactly as it's prescribed, or they'll loose their job... and believe it or not, it's not easy to get that fed job. So if they hear "do a patdown", it's the fear of loosing their job that is the primary trigger of "put your shirt back on". I suspect most TSOs are "afraid" (in the scope of this thought), and not power-hugry.

Now, maintaining a position of power, to maintain perceived order (for "security", and pax-throughput through the CP), is another dialog.

chollie

What happens if you go to the private room, and as soon as the door closes, you pull up your shirt and lower your trou enough to display the device?

Sorry, a 'good' TSO might, at that point, settle for visual inspection or guided groping. Of course, a 'good' TSO (one who has had effective training and oversight) would have asked about sensitive areas and listened when you explained your situation.

Unfortunately, you're just as likely to get someone who makes a (no pun intended) federal case if you just immediately expose the device. That might result in even worse handling.

Whatever you try, first and foremost, you have to remember that the most important thing is to find a routine that will work with a TSO with attitude and ignorance. You may encounter a TSO who cares about your dignity and who is willing to listen to you; it's the other ones who are your concern, as you have found out.

Good luck. PM our resident TSOs. I'm sure there are no problems at SAT or DEN. Perhaps you can glean some helpful tips from them that they are reluctant to post in the open forum.

TheGolfWidow

The fact that the screener doesn't know the preferred method of screening for most passengers should be a little disconcerting in that case, no??

tanja

I have also read that a pax cant refuse to put on a drape!?
Kind of weird to me.

FriendlySkies

Haven't you asked this before?

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...-pat-down.html

chollie

cdf, you have broought this up before.

Nothing anyone posts here can guarantee how it will be at your airport on the day you fly. I don't recall seeing a TSO (real or alleged) saying it is specifically forbidden.

I would suggest that you either

1) just raise your shirt and quickly drop your waistband to your hips - that may be enough to satisfy a screener's appetite.

2) directly ask the screener if a 'strip search' is an option. If you use those words, I think the answer may very well be 'no'. The groper may have an aversion to nudity but not to groping.

3) keep worrying about it and hoping things will go well. That's not working too well for Tom Sawyer at the moment, but YMMV.

May I ask: did you print out one of those 'medical' cards TSA came up with? If so, have you used it?

(I wonder if Sawyer has one. He said in this latest incident that he tried to talk to the screener before the grope but the screener wouldn't listen. I wonder if the screener was also ignoring a card or if Sawyer didn't present one).

AUS2008

I'd like to add to this: try like hell for a SDOO--because if YOU bring up the ostomy, of course they are going to check it---when you might have just been able to get through a WTMD unmolested; or if at all feasible, change your travel to airports that are not so AIT-happy.

Comcerneddisabledflier

I did bring this up before, and I even emailed TSA about it, but they never answered my question. I brought it up again because Mr. Sawyer was right, it is worse than ever now. I really, really didn't like how they fondled my bag earlier this week. So I brought it up again.

Always Flyin

There have been no cases stating the limits of an administrative search so no case has said that the TSA is prohibited from requiring a passenger to remove all their clothing.