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TSA changes pat-down for children

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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:13 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by phoebepontiac
I won't be happy until I can be assured that my kids won't be patted down without articulated reasonable suspicion that they are indeed carrying WEI. And if there is reasonable suspicion, the patdown should be a big deal, with LEO's and child advocate types involved. If I'm truly suspected of putting my child in such a horrible situation, it should be a serious issue, not a quick grope and then off you go.
That's another one of the many things that tells you that even the TSA doesn't think the children they are bodysearching have anything about to go kaboom on them other than their diapers.

Here's the decision tree:
1) Do you think this child is being used as a weapon?
a - NO: If so, keep your hands off his body.
b - YES: If so, immediately marshal all of the resources of our society in his behalf.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:14 pm
  #17  
 
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Originally Posted by barbell
+1

It is just appalling that a government official can waltz into a Senate hearing and act like that. When is Congress going to grow a pair and cut this a-hole off?

It's obvious they are going to push, and push, and push to further their own personal agenda and budget until chastised, and then pull back, only a little.

Someone seriously needs to put this arrogant SOB in his place.

Oh, and this little gem is priceless:



Didn't that already happen?

Did he lie the last time he deigned to speak to the Senate?
+1. Pistole has shown himself to be absolute scum in his handling in all of this. Then he goes a step further and lies, to Congress, thinking he is above the law. I listened to the hearing and the comments about children and elderly by Pistole. He knows he's getting put behind the 8 ball more and more, so now he'll "sacrifice safety" a little by changing the procedures for children. It just shows what a sham airport security is.
jtodd is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:38 pm
  #18  
 
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Originally Posted by billycorgan
IMO if it is inappropriate to be done on children it should be inappropriate to be done on adults.
You get a +1!
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:40 pm
  #19  
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Wow. Tough crowd. Seems like no matter what TSA does, it's not good enough. On the one hand, TSA is wrong for screening children by using thd same methods used for adults. But if the process is modified for children, then TSA is wrong for not screening everyone the same way. TSA is criticized for not being responsive to public demands, but is now just as wrong for listening to what critics have said.

By the way, IF this is a change, then it hasn't reached the instructor level yet. But I do welcome it if true. I think this is a good step toward true risk management....finally! Not ready to say we're there, but I do see this as a step in the right direction.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:42 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
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Wow. Tough crowd. Seems like no matter what TSA does, it's not good enough. On the one hand, TSA is wrong for screening children by using thd same methods used for adults. But if the process is modified for children, then TSA is wrong for not screening everyone the same way.
I think you might have misunderstood the objection. What people are objecting to is not whether adults and children are screened alike or differently. What people are objecting to is THIS screening method. For everyone.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:48 pm
  #21  
 
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Originally Posted by TheGolfWidow
I think you might have misunderstood the objection. What people are objecting to is not whether adults and children are screened alike or differently. What people are objecting to is THIS screening method. For everyone.
This! Why is it so hard to understand this? Many on this board have stated this over and over. The pat downs are insulting, inappropriate and are pretty much assault.

Last edited by jtodd; Jun 22, 2011 at 3:34 pm
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:50 pm
  #22  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
Wow. Tough crowd. Seems like no matter what TSA does, it's not good enough. On the one hand, TSA is wrong for screening children by using thd same methods used for adults. But if the process is modified for children, then TSA is wrong for not screening everyone the same way. TSA is criticized for not being responsive to public demands, but is now just as wrong for listening to what critics have said.
Well, to be fair to the denizens of FT ... most who post here would claim that TSA's current level of screening is universally too invasive. Modifying the screening procedures for children is probably a good thing, but it doesn't change the desire to reduce the screening level for everyone else, too.

We do, unfortunately, seem to be setting up some rather odd tiers of screening. TSA started by performing a fairly high (invasive?) screening of everyone. Fairly quickly, airport employees were exempted. And, of course, TSOs are exempted (except perhaps at beginning of shift). And then diplomats are exempted (if they have the right credentials). And then air crews complained mightily and got their screening requirements reduced substantially.

Now, we're talking about exempting "children" from invasive screening (though it'll be interesting to see how Pistole et. al. define "child"). And, there's long-term discussion of exempting others from invasive screening in exchange for providing detailed background information.

Seems, to this uninformed observer, like TSA is putting so many exceptions to screening in place that it's hard to see what the overall philosophy is.

Maybe, just maybe, if those low-levels of screening granted to folks in those categories is really good enough for them, it might be good enough for the rest of us.

But I'll be the first to admit that I'm not trained in risk management.
jkhuggins is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2011 | 2:51 pm
  #23  
 
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Pistole's comments have started a discussion thread over on The Consumerist.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 3:11 pm
  #24  
 
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Originally Posted by jkhuggins
Pistole's comments have started a discussion thread over on The Consumerist.
And someone there told me they'd support me if I ran for office.
celticwhisper is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2011 | 3:16 pm
  #25  
 
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Frankly, I, too, think you should.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 3:22 pm
  #26  
 
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Originally Posted by Bart
Wow. Tough crowd. Seems like no matter what TSA does, it's not good enough...
Well, that's certainly one way to twist everyone's words.

Here's the issue: so long as everyone, er apparently now most people, must prove their innocence, instead of having the government (that's TSA in this case) prove the peoples' guilt, yeah, I for one am not going to be happy.

The Law clearly states that we are protected from our government by unreasonable search of our persons. Period. It's a pretty simple thing to comprehend.

The spirit of that law is a long tradition, going back even further than the founding of our own country, that everyone, every. one., visitor, resident, citizen, is innocent until proven guilty.

What TSA is currently doing is assuming everyone, well as of today not everyone, to prove their innocence. Nope. Not gonna fly. TSA does this because, as an organization, it has proven itself entirely inept at performing the function for which it was created. For its failures it punishes the people.

When TSA stops abusing the spirit of the law, when TSA stops treating everyone as if they are a criminal, then, and only then will I be happy.

Is it really that difficult to understand?
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 3:29 pm
  #27  
 
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Originally Posted by barbell

[Snipped some good stuff....INK]

Is it really that difficult to understand?
Uh, no.
InkUnderNails is offline  
Old Jun 22, 2011 | 4:05 pm
  #28  
 
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Based on the example in the cite, it seems as though TSA staffers will run a kid multiple times through the x ray if they don't get a good image the first time.

Airport security workers will now be told to make repeated attempts to screen young children without resorting to invasive pat-downs, the head of the Transportation Security Administration said Wednesday. The agency is working to put that change in place around the country, and it should reduce, but not eliminate, pat-downs for children, an agency spokesman said.

There was public outrage in April over a video of a 6-year-old girl getting a pat-down in the New Orleans airport. She was patted down, John Pistole said, because she moved during the electronic screening, causing a blurry image.
That's a good public health move.
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 4:14 pm
  #29  
 
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Originally Posted by celticwhisper
And someone there told me they'd support me if I ran for office.
Hey, I would, too (with my vote...not with my money)!!
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Old Jun 22, 2011 | 4:29 pm
  #30  
 
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Even Pistole says "We need to use common sense."

I guess common sense is anything but common.
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