gojirasan

You are getting a lot of noise here. So let me just state that your plan should work fine. The overwhelming consensus here from people who fly regularly out of Canadian airports is that CATSA is orders of magnitude better than the TSA as a general rule and that you are very, very unlikely to be genitally groped even if you opt out of the scanner. In that case you would be subjected to a non-genital grope however. Again, that would happen only if you are randomly selected for the scanner and then opt out.

There are none of the implied pseudo-threats about "not completing the screening process". It is well accepted even by CATSA themselves that you have every right to walk away at any point in the process. They will not try to prevent you from leaving or call the cops and try to have you arrested. They just let you leave.

CATSA does not grope after they scope anyway as the TSA does. If you don't mind the harmless but embarrassing millimeter wave NoS then you have nothing to worry about in Canada at all.

It is much more difficult for me because I will not allow myself to be scanned even by the MMW NoS. So I have to consider change fees and rescheduling flights if the randomizer system chooses me for the scope.

Mimi111

I'll just put it out there...CATSA is not the TSA.

Like any other country with flights to the US, there are certain requirements for flights to the US such as the shoe carnival and the liquids ban. Flying domestically and to any other country aside from the US does not require the removal of shoes, does not require 90% of the pointless theatre that is required for US bound flights.

Do not paint CATSA with the same brush as TSA. They are accountable, they are polite, there is no yelling, they are allowed to use common sense, etc.

YOW is my home airport. I also fly from YUL and YYZ regularly. I have never gone through a MMW let alone be selected for secondary screening. If you note the placement of these devices within the screening area, you will see that they are not in a place that would allow their regular use.

The whole MMW debacle was put in place at the behest of the US (economic threats really). I wish that were not the case BUT these devices are almost NEVER in use and when they are, they are for resolution screening or random screening only. Resolution screening is reasonable, for the most part, not retaliatory and incremental as far as intrusiveness. MMW devices are never used as primary and if/when secondary is required and it gets to the point of checking a person in his or her entirety, you are not required to "opt out", you are given the choice of a patdown or the MMW...and no, the patdown is not even close to that which is performed in the US.

The worst of CATSA can be found in YYC. Pretty much any questionable incidents that are CATSA related will be from that airport. Point of note...every single time there is an incident, and it's pretty rare, they are actioned immediately.

If you are flying through/over US airspace, you information will be passed to US (you can thank your govenrment for that) but the TSA is not involved in screening process at your departure airport.

If you are flying out of Canada to a non-US destination, you really don't have anything to worry about.

LAX

I don't think you need to fly back to Canada to avoid the TSA.

LAX

bajajoes

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I go to Baja frequently and ever since Volaris started service years ago I have elected to drive to San Diego and walk across the border, catch a cab to the TIJ airport and fly to SJD, GDL, PVR,CUN or wherever in Mexico I wanted.
All to avoid the tsa and their abuses. And I keep my SHOES on!:-:
Also I saved a lot on Intl Travel Taxes by not crossing border by air.@:-)

polonius

I do this regularly to avoid the TSA. Next week flying AMS-YUL, then train to Washington, train to Chicago, train to Toronto, then YYZ-AMS.

neko

No need to sneak into Mexico. Simply use the pedestrian border crossing at San Diego to Tijuana and take a taxi to TIJ. Or vote with your wallet and spend some time and money in Mexico -- in addition to giving your airfare to a non-US airline!

neko

Yes and no. Obviously, arrive direct to your US destination you avoid TSA, per se.

But the US still has its own security requirements for flights to the US and many airports have special areas and procedures for flights to the US that they won't have for flights to Canada or Mexico.

Not too surprisingly, this tends to vary a lot between countries and airports and even airlines, so it's a good idea to ask around.

trode

I put together a similar plan for my family's European vacation this summer.

My wife flew SJC to LAX in Oct'10, forgot about her watch, and beeped the WTMD. She got a resolution pat-down and said it made her feel like a prison inmate. I can't even think about what the new TSA procedures would do to my wife or teenage daughter, if we happened to be unlucky.

That's part of the problem -- if there were things you could do to reduce your chance of being mistreated to a negligible level, like say how you can reduce your chance of being run over in the street by being careful to look both ways before crossing, then it would be acceptable. But to all appearances, random "enhancements" are part of standard procedure.

As a consequence, we have been avoiding flying. But we really wanted to go to Europe this summer, so I have been reading FT for months gathering info to come up with an acceptable plan.

Starting from SJC we are taking the Coast Starlight to SEA. The connecting bus gets to Vancouver at 12:20 AM which would be awful so we decided to rent a car from SEA (have to pick it up at the airport, which is the only place open that late) and visit relatives in Oak Harbor for a few days before driving up to YVR. We are flying LH YVR to FRA, and then a week later LH FRA to BUD, and then two weeks later LH BUD to MUC to SFO.

I picked YVR after reading a lot of FT commentary and deciding that for a non-US bound flight the chances of feeling mistreated were very remote.

I made sure to get an actual LH flight from MUC to SFO also based on FT commentary regarding differences between US and non-US carrier flights into the US.

The cost of the itinerary is substantially higher than it would be to fly directly out from SFO to FRA due to the Amtrak tickets, the one-way international rental car, and the non-round-trip routing on LH. But we get to enjoy a train ride, see relatives in Washington, and with any luck at all completely avoid any contact with the TSA.

exbayern

As someone who frequently flies LH on those routes (as well as many other LH routes) may I say 'smart choices!'

You will enjoy not taking your shoes off at YVR. The line is generally very short at that time of day, even with many international departures. (If you are flying economy class however do note that the checkin line forms well before the desk opens at 1pm - too many overly punctual Germans ) I've never seen the MMW in use at the international checkpoint, although there is one there. And if you are selected via the randomizer, you can opt for the far less invasive pat down instead.

Then you can enjoy the international terminal at YVR with fish tanks, decent places to eat, etc.

There shouldn't be the silliness at MUC on your way to SFO either.

Enjoy your trip!

Uh Clem

I don't see what the problem is. Your'e flying out of PDX which always rates as one of the best airports in the country. I fly out of PDX all the time and have never had or have seen anyone have a issue with TSA here. Not to say it can't happen but this is Oregon, not Arizona.

average_passenger

What is the TSA/DHS presence when an American crosses the border to go to Mexico? I mean, they can't stop you from taking a mini-vacation in Mexico first before flying somewhere else. Are they going to insist that you go back to the USA just to continue your vacation? Also, what do the TSA do when you return back to the US from Mexico?

Mabuk dan gila

TSA has nothing to do with crossing the land border although they have recently been violating commuters on the San Diego Trolley which is the most convenient way to reach the border if you live in San Diego and don't want to park your car long term somewhere. Entering Mexico is of course a mater of simply walking through a gate and a taxi from the border crossing to TIJ airport is ~$8. Departing TIJ for any Mexican city or international departures TIJ-NRT or TIJ-PVG you must complete Mexican entry immigration formalities but that is simple. If you fly to MEX you can of course connect to almost anywhere else in the world from there, or taking AM's flights TIJ-NRT or TIJ-PVG you can connect from those hub cities to anywhere in Asia or Australia. I have personally flown TIJ-NRT-MNL a few times TIJ-NRT-ICN-CGK, TIJ-MEX-PTY-CTG TIJ-MEX-PTY-LIM. Returning you have to clear Mexican entry immigration which is no big deal, getting back to the border there are cross border buses from TIJ to San Diego and this is the best way because the buses use a special bus lane at US Immigration whereas the pedestrian line for US Immigration at the San Ysidro land border can snake literally half a mile into Mexico at times. The San Ysidro border is so high volume the US Immigration agents are often surly and rude but don't hassle you with allot of questions and secondary customs is extremely rare. Every time I have gone half way around the world from TIJ, when returning to the US the agent just assumed I was returning from a brief visit to Mexico and if they did not ask if I went to Indonesia..... well I never volunteer information that they do not ask about. If they ask me why I was in Mexico, I say "going to visit friends". A truthful statement. The reason I was in Mexico, is to catch the plane, to go, to visit my friends, in Indonesia. They never ask me about where I was going FROM Mexico, only the reason I was in Mexico. I also use my Passport Card, not my book passport to re-enter the US at the land border and half the time US Immigration doesn't say anything at all to you and just swipes your card and sends you on your way.

average_passenger

You're tempting to to fly from Mexico. Seriously, I bet that more people will start doing this. I wonder if the government and airlines will care about the lost revenue? Probably not...

gojirasan

I looked into flights departing from Mexico without US connections. For flights to Asia at least there was pretty much nothing. It seemed like every flight from MEX or CUN stopped in the US first. If I were flying to somewhere in Latin America there would be no problem. For everywhere else I think it is better to depart from Canada.

Often1

Recent piece I read (and wish I could remember where, but was one of the major news outlets) noted that there are exceptionally few opt outs ever since the ruckus just before T-giving last year. That seems to be speeding things up again. There are, of course, a few folks spending time, effort and money elsewhere, but I don't believe that it has anything but a truly negligible impact on US carriers' actual dollar revenue. Flights are fuller and fares are up, so seems to be the case.

In the end, having those folks use land transport to Mexico / Canada cuts down even further on opt outs and other stuff, so lines move faster and vast majority of folks get to where they are going all the faster.