Scan and Sniff
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
Scan and Sniff
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...xplosives.html
Interesting. Unveiled in Singapore today. Now, if they could just get rid of those pesky TSA critters....
Interesting. Unveiled in Singapore today. Now, if they could just get rid of those pesky TSA critters....
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencete...xplosives.html
Interesting. Unveiled in Singapore today. Now, if they could just get rid of those pesky TSA critters....
Interesting. Unveiled in Singapore today. Now, if they could just get rid of those pesky TSA critters....
....and we want to pay off the national debt in which century?
#5
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 121
This isn't new. The TSA started out with puffer machines, which aren't influenced by emotions like sniffer dogs, but they whined and moaned and complained that they were getting clogged up and were too hard to maintain. So instead, billions were spent on more jobs, and scanners that aren't safe to use and can't detect the threats they're trying to address.
Meanwhile, Toronto's CN Tower uses them on every guest who goes to the observation deck. I've been through, and they're kind of fun - search YouTube and you'll see lots of smiling faces. That and they don't harm the customers and can actually detect legitimate threats.
I've discovered and been following the "Boycott Flying" group on Facebook lately because they seem to cover a lot more of the topics with regard to TSA safety that either don't appear here anymore or get deleted; it's a great resource. But I was a little surprised how everyone pounced on the idea of puffers on there too - this is the kind of thing we've wanted all along! Unintrusive, safe for health, dignified, and actually can detect new threats for a pretty good cost/benefit ratio.
#6
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 733
I had such high hopes for the IATA's "blue sky" system.
Seeing it here I'm just underwhelmed.
Based on TSA's track record, any number of people can be part of the "enhanced" group and have no recourse to get out of that line.
If applied in the US, it completely flies in the face of the innocent until proven guilty concept. Again we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent, which completely turns the spirit of the Constitution on its head. Not that the current process isn't any worse...
IOW this just looks to me like a horse of a different color pulling the same cart.
Seeing it here I'm just underwhelmed.
Based on TSA's track record, any number of people can be part of the "enhanced" group and have no recourse to get out of that line.
If applied in the US, it completely flies in the face of the innocent until proven guilty concept. Again we are guilty until we prove ourselves innocent, which completely turns the spirit of the Constitution on its head. Not that the current process isn't any worse...
IOW this just looks to me like a horse of a different color pulling the same cart.
#7

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BOS
Programs: DL PM, Hertz Gold Plus, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,049
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
#8
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 1,628
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
There's also that nasty side effect that this effectively builds up a worldwide iris database of anyone who ever flies a plane. All in the name of safety, of course.
Sadly, the UK seems very eager to deploy this technology as soon as possible.
#9
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 642
But it DOES emit radiation.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
It should be just
1. metal detector
2. explosives sniffer/detector
3. bag screen for gun or explosives
Nothing else, no assaults, irradiated pax, nude pictures, silly/pointless pax questions, id verification, drug or money searches, retaliatory inspections, threats, etc. etc. Everything else can be left to law enforcement and intelligence agencies, the way it has been in the past.
Last edited by jtodd; Jun 7, 2011 at 12:07 pm
#10
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Marriott or Hilton hot tub with a big drink <glub> Beverage: To-Go Bag DYKWIA:SSSS /rolleyes ☈ Date Night:Costco
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Posts: 12,523
Great, three classes of screening. Known Traveler, Normal and Enhanced. Guess which one gets used for PAX flying into the States the next time the TSA collectively wets its pants over a tewwowist? 
And why does the Known Traveler portal have liquids detection?
I guess the industrial designer doesn't know anything about the science of binary liquid explosives aboard aircraft.

And why does the Known Traveler portal have liquids detection?
I guess the industrial designer doesn't know anything about the science of binary liquid explosives aboard aircraft.
#11
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 121
But it DOES emit radiation.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
Oops, disregard my earlier post then. This is awful.
I didn't read the article fully and thought it was a similar article about the next generation of puffer machines, which are getting quite impressive.
#12

Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: BOS
Programs: DL PM, Hertz Gold Plus, SPG Gold
Posts: 1,049
It also looks like the "normal" and "enhanced" lanes employ "shoe scanners", which might also be X-ray based.
I wonder how much one of these carnival fun rides costs, and whose hands are in its piggy bank.
I wonder how much one of these carnival fun rides costs, and whose hands are in its piggy bank.
#13


Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 659
This is a terrible idea and would make things much worse. I have issues with any type of eyescan database being used. I know that the movie "Minority Report" is science fiction, but it shows how scary that it can be for people to be tracked by eye scanners.
#14
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Asia
Posts: 647
jtodd wrote:
It should be just
1. metal detector
2. explosives sniffer/detector
3. bag screen for gun or explosives
Exactly. Nothing more, nothing less.
The idea that pax could just walk through a tunnel and be 'screened' is great except for the dosing of radiation that we all don't need. And without iris scanning, etc. But a system that could scan for WEI, and nothing more, without the silly intrusions of smurfs is potentially a better option.
It should be just
1. metal detector
2. explosives sniffer/detector
3. bag screen for gun or explosives
Exactly. Nothing more, nothing less.
The idea that pax could just walk through a tunnel and be 'screened' is great except for the dosing of radiation that we all don't need. And without iris scanning, etc. But a system that could scan for WEI, and nothing more, without the silly intrusions of smurfs is potentially a better option.
#15
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: An NPR mind living in a Fox News world
Posts: 14,343
But it DOES emit radiation.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.
Scroll down:
Enhanced - eye scanner, enhanced X-ray,..., full body scanner
Normal - eye scanner, X-ray,...
Known traveller - eye scanner, X-ray,...
And what's worse (watch the video) - it looks like this tunnel is also going to incorporate baggage scanning with passenger scanning - meaning that you are likely going to be exposed to the same dose of radiation as your carry-on bag. The dose required to penetrate a bag to allow sufficient visualization of the contents is certainly more than that required for a backscatter scan.





