New additional random screening?
Jun 2, 2011 | 8:59 pm
#46
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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ND Sol: Sorry, but you are trying to deny modern day reality.
I don't like it either, but I recognize what it is. Until Congress cuts funding, don't expect it to change materially. And I don't expect that to happen in a significant way.
I suspect the Supremes will rule against fully body scanners as a primary means of inspection, but don't expect most of this to go away.
No one in authority wants to be seen as soft on terror.
That's how it is. Like it or not.
I don't like it either, but I recognize what it is. Until Congress cuts funding, don't expect it to change materially. And I don't expect that to happen in a significant way.
I suspect the Supremes will rule against fully body scanners as a primary means of inspection, but don't expect most of this to go away.
No one in authority wants to be seen as soft on terror.
That's how it is. Like it or not.
Jun 2, 2011 | 9:01 pm
#47
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 1,006
You're confused? You'll be more than confused if you try what you posted.
No. I don't need one. You are in the secure area of the airport and have therefore submitted to all security inspections pursuant to our procedures, which you cannot see becuase they are SSI. It's a security issue.
This is not an involuntary detention. You agreed to submit to security inspections by entering the secure area of the airport. This is an administrative inspection that you consented to by entering the secure area.
Not yet, but you are working on it. Are you refusing to allow us to inspect you for security issues? Are you aware there is a fine of up to $11,000 for such failure? And, if you hinder or delay our security procedures, you are subject to arrest.
And where might one find such a right? Several courts of appeal haven't found it.
I respect the attitude, but you better know the law cold when you try to apply it because you won't like the ramifications if you are wrong.
No. I don't need one. You are in the secure area of the airport and have therefore submitted to all security inspections pursuant to our procedures, which you cannot see becuase they are SSI. It's a security issue.
This is not an involuntary detention. You agreed to submit to security inspections by entering the secure area of the airport. This is an administrative inspection that you consented to by entering the secure area.
Not yet, but you are working on it. Are you refusing to allow us to inspect you for security issues? Are you aware there is a fine of up to $11,000 for such failure? And, if you hinder or delay our security procedures, you are subject to arrest.
And where might one find such a right? Several courts of appeal haven't found it.
I respect the attitude, but you better know the law cold when you try to apply it because you won't like the ramifications if you are wrong.
You might want to take a look at: http://www.ca9.uscourts.gov/datastor...10/0410226.pdf
"We have held that airport screening searches, like the one at issue here, are constitutionally reasonable administrative searches because they are 'conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme in furtherance of an administrative purpose, namely, to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft, and thereby to prevent hijackings.'"
While that case dealt with initial screening, do you really think courts will not give the TSA similar authority throughout the entire secure area (particularly because so many airport employees enter it without screening)?
"We have held that airport screening searches, like the one at issue here, are constitutionally reasonable administrative searches because they are 'conducted as part of a general regulatory scheme in furtherance of an administrative purpose, namely, to prevent the carrying of weapons or explosives aboard aircraft, and thereby to prevent hijackings.'"
While that case dealt with initial screening, do you really think courts will not give the TSA similar authority throughout the entire secure area (particularly because so many airport employees enter it without screening)?
Jun 2, 2011 | 9:10 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Sorry [again], but if you can't see the direction the Congress/TSA/courts are going with this...
You choose to fly and you are in the secure area, you are subject to inspection.
If you don't like it, don't fly.
I don't like it, but that's how it is and will be. Love to be wrong, but I don't think so...
Jun 2, 2011 | 10:12 pm
#49
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Jun 2, 2011 | 10:19 pm
#50
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Sorry [again], but if you can't see the direction the Congress/TSA/courts are going with this...
You choose to fly and you are in the secure area, you are subject to inspection.
If you don't like it, don't fly.
I don't like it, but that's how it is and will be. Love to be wrong, but I don't think so...
You choose to fly and you are in the secure area, you are subject to inspection.
If you don't like it, don't fly.
I don't like it, but that's how it is and will be. Love to be wrong, but I don't think so...
Humans have this weird way of believing against perception that they are in a normal situation.
Jun 2, 2011 | 10:26 pm
#51
Join Date: Jan 2000
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Guess what? The sheep are accepting it.
The number of people opting out of full body scanners is incredibly small. Almost no one.
If I hear one more person quoted as saying, "I don't care as long as it makes us safer," I am going to scream.
But guess what? That is the prevalent thought.
Jun 2, 2011 | 10:53 pm
#52
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I fly. A lot.
Guess what? The sheep are accepting it.
The number of people opting out of full body scanners is incredibly small. Almost no one.
If I hear one more person quoted as saying, "I don't care as long as it makes us safer," I am going to scream.
But guess what? That is the prevalent thought.
Guess what? The sheep are accepting it.
The number of people opting out of full body scanners is incredibly small. Almost no one.
If I hear one more person quoted as saying, "I don't care as long as it makes us safer," I am going to scream.
But guess what? That is the prevalent thought.
This behavior is fundamentally wrong and repugnant. So I see no need to throw in the towel just because so many have submitted. All it takes is one. One committed person is worth hundreds of the sheep. And there are a lot more than a few who regard this TSA behavior as despicable.
Texas came close to outlawing this and isn't done. Other states are taking this up. A lot of show, a lot of grandstanding, well, duh, yes, but still some noise, and it won't stop because people just don't like this. We just need a little movement, maybe a nudge toward ATR, maybe another nudge, and those happy hands stay just a tad futher south of the family jewels.
we're not asking for a complete capitulation, as that is unlikely to happen yet. just little movements...
just like economics, things are either getting better at an increasing rate or getting worse at an increasing rate. status quo is an illusion.
Jun 4, 2011 | 3:48 pm
#54
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: TPA/ALC/CDG
Programs: Iberia Plus, Flying Blue, Delta Skymiles, Priority Club
Posts: 68
TSA Screenerd roaming landside
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
Jun 4, 2011 | 4:06 pm
#55
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Nashville, TN
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Posts: 8,043
I had a similar experience in December 2010 and January 2011 at TPA where TSA were roaming in pairs through the "aisles" of benches questioning waiting passengers "randomly".
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
Jun 4, 2011 | 4:51 pm
#56
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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I had a similar experience in December 2010 and January 2011 at TPA where TSA were roaming in pairs through the "aisles" of benches questioning waiting passengers "randomly".
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
Jun 5, 2011 | 10:24 am
#58
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Western PA
Programs: ExPlAAt; United 1K
Posts: 486
I'm starting to see evidence they are not accepting it. I fly a lot too (although much less since patdowns and AITs were implemented). A colleague (who works on risk issues for DHS) and I both independently noticed that at certain airports (PIT, LAX, etc), where you largely can self-choose how you are screened, the lines for the WMTD are much longer than the lines for WBI. Several times, I have seen TSOs try to divert people to the WBI lines to even out the flow. We interpret this as a revealed preference for WMTD and against WBI.
Jun 5, 2011 | 1:30 pm
#59
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Monterey Bay Area
Programs: Independent Libertarian
Posts: 326
It's A Game. Know Your Move.
I had a similar experience in December 2010 and January 2011 at TPA where TSA were roaming in pairs through the "aisles" of benches questioning waiting passengers "randomly".
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
One stopped tow to toe in front of me as I began eating my chicken salad-in-a-box lunch and asked where I was going. Maybe he saw me looking their way, and decided that was suspicious. I thought for a second he was going to confiscate my lunch. Anyway when they made the next rounds, I made a point of keeping my eyes to the floor.
Kinda felt like a time I travelled through the old soviet block countries though, not good...
IF someone comes up to me outside a normal checkpoint(By tsa at airport regardless if in uniform) my move would be to ask for ID.
IF it is not shown I feel no need to answer questions.
Last edited by bajajoes; Jun 5, 2011 at 1:33 pm Reason: Add qualifier
Jun 5, 2011 | 2:51 pm
#60
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