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-   -   AIT Conditioning (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1218664-ait-conditioning.html)

adamli9 May 23, 2011 10:13 pm

AIT Conditioning
 
Flying out of CVG Sunday night, I noticed something that was either a coincidence or a new strategy that the TSA was employing.

In lanes 1-2, the AIT machine was processing about 3-4 people for every 1 going through the WMD. In the WMD lane, the TSOs appeared to be x-raying the carryon items very slowly; much slower than the AIT lane.

Was this a maneuver to get more people to self-select the AIT, or was it just a coincidence? I'll be flying out again from there in a couple weeks, so I'll look for it happening.

barbell May 23, 2011 10:19 pm

It is a common, and daily, occurrence now at MSP.

MSP has 2 completely NoS-free checkpoints currently (well 4, but the 3rd is for DL elite only, and the 4th for airport/airline employees). The 2 WTMD only lines are purposefully run slowly by means of the baggage x-ray. MSP TSA suits also camp out on a walkway overlooking one of these checkpoints, apparently gauging reaction.

People still self-select into these lines far more than into the NoS/WTMD combination lines.

I also noticed it once at LAX where the WTMD-feeding baggage x-ray was moving at a rate so that there was a 1:1 WTMD:NoS ratio. Meanwhile the bags in the NoS-feeding baggage x-ray was slowed to a near stop due to the "speed" of the NoS. Go figure.

TXagogo May 23, 2011 11:29 pm


Originally Posted by barbell (Post 16438517)
It is a common, and daily, occurrence now at MSP.

MSP has 2 completely NoS-free checkpoints currently (well 4, but the 3rd is for DL elite only, and the 4th for airport/airline employees). The 2 WTMD only lines are purposefully run slowly by means of the baggage x-ray. MSP TSA suits also camp out on a walkway overlooking one of these checkpoints, apparently gauging reaction.

People still self-select into these lines far more than into the NoS/WTMD combination lines.

I also noticed it once at LAX where the WTMD-feeding baggage x-ray was moving at a rate so that there was a 1:1 WTMD:NoS ratio. Meanwhile the bags in the NoS-feeding baggage x-ray was slowed to a near stop due to the "speed" of the NoS. Go figure.

I don't doubt it for a minute. As an aside, I was at MSP twice in the last 2 weeks. Both times checkpoint 1 (WTMD only) was completely closed.

Oh and just as a tip - I went to the Checkpoint 3 (Delta Elite only) and showed my boarding pass to the Delta agent standing there. I said "is this line OK for American 1st class?" (normally I wouldn't have asked but I wanted to get an idea of how dictatorial they are at MSP) and he said "Sure right through there". Granted, a different agent may have said something different but I proceeded through the checkpoint WTMD ignoring any person in a blue shirt and was on my way in under 4 minutes.

I'll bet they are just chomping at the bit to get those last three checkpoints cancered up.

mikeef May 24, 2011 9:45 am

I don't understand why Shena should have to help out at the WTMDs. According to Blogger Bob, 98% of passengers prefer the NoS.

Mike

jackonferry May 24, 2011 11:07 am


Originally Posted by mikeef (Post 16440799)
I don't understand why Shena should have to help out at the WTMDs. According to Blogger Bob, 98% of passengers prefer the NoS.

I noticed on my last trip through terminal 7 at LAX (last Friday) that the lines were much, much longer for WMTD than WBI. Granted, you encounter the WMTD lines first. Still, it seemed to me that people were voting with their feet and choosing the WMTD lines over WBI. This particular screening point serves a lot of United frequent flyers, so maybe there's correlation.

InkUnderNails May 24, 2011 11:32 am

A while back at BNA, they were actually restricting passengers from selecting WTMD only lines.

They had erected a rope line across a dual x-ray into one WTMD line that had the scanner off and blocked. The line guard would keep the rope closed and as people asked, I was one, to use the line they were rebuffed and directed to the line where the scanner was active. They allowed just a few through and the line was very short and fast. There were at least 25 people that went through the guarded mine before I could proceed through the WTMD (selected by another line guard) after the 8 or so folks in my line could move through.

It was obviously a ploy to prevent self-selection of a scanner "off" line, and a successful one at that.

RatherBeOnATrain May 24, 2011 3:50 pm


Originally Posted by adamli9 (Post 16438496)
In lanes 1-2, the AIT machine was processing about 3-4 people for every 1 going through the WMD. In the WMD lane, the TSOs appeared to be x-raying the carryon items very slowly; much slower than the AIT lane.

Did you file a complaint with TSA? Here's the link: http://www.tsa.gov/contact/index.shtm


Originally Posted by adamli9 (Post 16438496)
I'll be flying out again from there in a couple weeks, so I'll look for it happening.

If you don't complain, you can expect the same treatment - or worse - on your next trip thru there!

Pesky Monkey May 24, 2011 9:47 pm


Originally Posted by adamli9 (Post 16438496)
Flying out of CVG Sunday night, I noticed something that was either a coincidence or a new strategy that the TSA was employing.

In lanes 1-2, the AIT machine was processing about 3-4 people for every 1 going through the WMD. In the WMD lane, the TSOs appeared to be x-raying the carryon items very slowly; much slower than the AIT lane.

Was this a maneuver to get more people to self-select the AIT, or was it just a coincidence? I'll be flying out again from there in a couple weeks, so I'll look for it happening.

Realistically, I'll a slow WTMD lane over a quick nude-o-scope lane any day.

VegasCableGuy May 25, 2011 12:01 am

I'm sure they're slowing the WTMD to pump up the numbers for NOS processing. They are probably working to create a claim that NOS can keep up with the WTMD and process an equal number of passengers per hour. Governance and/or the device manufacturers are likely the driving force. They have to make it a "success", even if just on paper. This is just one of the many creative ways they can generate "facts" for reports and audit purposes. There's no other way to justify something that is 3x slower, requires 3x more staffers and costs significantly more than a WTMD.

Global_Hi_Flyer May 25, 2011 5:28 am

IAD is also forcing folks to back up for the strip search machine. One in 10 was allowed throuhg the wtmd, even though it caused a long backup. IAD is now one to avoid if you can. Surley screeners, overstaffed, and forced strip search.

JSFox May 25, 2011 8:41 am

They also don't fully man the elite checkpoint at MSP. Last three times the elite checkpoint had 30 or more people in line and only one WMD operating while there were other checkpoints with 'no wait'.

Wally Bird May 25, 2011 9:59 am


Originally Posted by jackonferry (Post 16441373)
I noticed on my last trip through terminal 7 at LAX (last Friday) that the lines were much, much longer for WMTD than WBI. Granted, you encounter the WMTD lines first. Still, it seemed to me that people were voting with their feet and choosing the WMTD lines over WBI. This particular screening point serves a lot of United frequent flyers, so maybe there's correlation.

My guess would be the only correlation is the herd mentality of the flying public. See a line, join it.

gojirasan May 25, 2011 10:34 am


Originally Posted by Wally Bird (Post 16447487)
My guess would be the only correlation is the herd mentality of the flying public. See a line, join it.

But don't they usually join the shortest one? Unless they can't see it or don't think it applies to them.

Himeno May 26, 2011 10:23 am

Just went through LAX T4. Went through the small side checkpoint, the first checkpoint 'door' from the left side of the main terminal doors.
While in the line, I was thinking of what I'd do/say if I ended up with the NoS, but it didn't come to that. The mini checkpoint had 1 NoS and 1 WTMD with one line feeding to both. I self selected the moment I saw the choice. A TSO tried to get some people into the NoS line (both lines about the same size after the 'TDC').
The people just ahead of me saw that the NoS line was getting priority and were thinking of changing, so I told them what it was. The people behind me knew was it was and choose that line for the same reason I did.

It appeared that at least 1 in 3 were self selecting the WTMD, 1 in 3 just joining a line and the rest following orders.

The bag xray was going at about 2:1 on the WTMD side.

After going though, I heard someone who had been through the NoS say it was 'fun'.

gmmandrade May 26, 2011 11:32 am

This was very clearly happening at LAX AA terminal yesterday. The priority access (ie elite) lines all ended up in one common choke point that had both a WTMD and an NoS. Usually the odds of those have been pretty good in favor of WTMD, because the NoS is so damn slow, so you have small (maybe less than 1 in 5) chance of going NoS when you get to the front. But yesterday, the line was moving very slow, to the point that they had to back people up before the escalator that leads up to it. I use that line at least once a month and this seemed unusual. Upon careful observation, it was clear they were deliberately slowing down the WTMD line. It seemed like a two pronged strategy.

First, and most obvious, the TSO manning the WTMD line would just stop and stand in front of it every couple of people that went through. Not doing anything, just standing in front of it, not letting anyone through, observing the NoS line the whole time.

Second, it was clear the bag xray was being slowed down. The xray operator would either get up every so often to exchange words with colleagues (but not to bring over anyone to observe something on the screen), and then every so often would literally just sit there, staring at the screen, without moving the xray belt. Probably just being abundantly cautious.....

I'm guessing in the 15 mins I spent on that line (usually less than 5mins) they managed to get it down to between 2-1 and maybe even 1-1 ratio of WTMD-NoS.

tkey75 May 26, 2011 11:42 am


Originally Posted by gojirasan (Post 16447773)
But don't they usually join the shortest one? Unless they can't see it or don't think it applies to them.

Nope, the longest one is uually picked. Driven through a toll lately? There'll be one lane with 20 cars, another with two, both accept payment. Herd mentality.

gojirasan May 26, 2011 11:48 am


Originally Posted by tkey75 (Post 16454825)
Nope, the longest one is uually picked. Driven through a toll lately? There'll be one lane with 20 cars, another with two, both accept payment. Herd mentality.

Actually I have never seen that. Not even once. Although I have seen ETC lanes much shorter than cash lanes for obvious reasons. If that were really true I guess I'd never have to wait in a line again. It would be very nice.

Caradoc May 26, 2011 12:11 pm


Originally Posted by adamli9 (Post 16438496)
Was this a maneuver to get more people to self-select the AIT, or was it just a coincidence?

Do you think it a coincidence that the pat-downs became more offensive with the roll-out of the Nude-O-Scopes?

Boggie Dog May 26, 2011 12:15 pm


Originally Posted by Caradoc (Post 16454999)
Do you think it a coincidence that the pat-downs became more offensive with the roll-out of the Nude-O-Scopes?

Pavlo's dog.

FetePerfection May 26, 2011 12:17 pm


Originally Posted by TXagogo (Post 16438733)
Oh and just as a tip - I went to the Checkpoint 3 (Delta Elite only) and showed my boarding pass to the Delta agent standing there. I said "is this line OK for American 1st class?" (normally I wouldn't have asked but I wanted to get an idea of how dictatorial they are at MSP) and he said "Sure right through there". Granted, a different agent may have said something different but I proceeded through the checkpoint WTMD ignoring any person in a blue shirt and was on my way in under 4 minutes.

I'll bet they are just chomping at the bit to get those last three checkpoints cancered up.

My biggest fear for MSP but for now happy to have status to use checkpoint 3 exclusively. Oh, and I'm happy you encountered a friendly agent.

eyecue May 26, 2011 9:10 pm

NOS is primary now.

Global_Hi_Flyer May 26, 2011 9:25 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16457621)
NOS is primary now.

Turning the pot of water up to boiling under the frogs. Pretty soon it will be mandatory.

Tonight at LAX T4 it was very obvious that the WTMD side had slower x-ray screeners. 3 minutes per passenger, including a FA.

mozgytog May 27, 2011 5:00 am


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16457621)
NOS is primary now.

And all the statements that it was an alternative to a groping to resolve a WTMD alarm were lies.

Global_Hi_Flyer May 27, 2011 6:17 am


Originally Posted by mozgytog (Post 16458828)
And all the statements that it was an alternative to a groping to resolve a WTMD alarm were lies.

As were, I anticipate, Pishole's comments that they don't plan to go with more invasive searches.

DeafBlonde May 27, 2011 6:43 am


Originally Posted by tkey75 (Post 16454825)
Nope, the longest one is uually picked. Driven through a toll lately? There'll be one lane with 20 cars, another with two, both accept payment. Herd mentality.

I do not agree. They may both accept payment, but one may require "exact change." :rolleyes:

Superguy May 27, 2011 2:14 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16457621)
NOS is primary now.

And I remember how many times BB swore up and down that wasn't going to be the case. :rolleyes: :td:

RatherBeOnATrain May 27, 2011 2:26 pm


Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer (Post 16457676)
Tonight at LAX T4 it was very obvious that the WTMD side had slower x-ray screeners.

Did you file a complaint about it, or do you just intent to lament it here?

Global_Hi_Flyer May 27, 2011 3:11 pm


Originally Posted by RatherBeOnATrain (Post 16461496)
Did you file a complaint about it, or do you just intent to lament it here?

1) I arrived home a few hours ago (took the redeye). No point complaining at the screening station: the TSA screening station at LAX doesn't care - they've told me that before. Complaint will be filed shortly.

2) Posting here informs others so they can plan accordingly.

VegasCableGuy May 27, 2011 4:18 pm

SAN WN gates 1/2 today, NOS only, no WTMD. I'm 3 out of 4 on getting tagged for NOS over the last two weeks, I'm sure Eyecue is correct in stating that it is primary now. Moat dragon seemed surprised by the opt-out. He kept telling me I couldn't take my wallet into the scanner (he saw the bulge in my pocket) & I told him three times that I wasn't going into the scanner. I had to say "Opt-out!" pretty loud to break his focus before he said "oh, okay, stand over there." Groper today was polite, didn't touch the jewels at all (didn't even come close) but was somewhat upset that I'd brought my wallet. He saw it in my hand as I approached (the usual approach) and freaked out asking "WHAT'S IN YOUR HAND?!" dramatically while backing away. I've always brought it (not gonna leave it in a tray) and they've always flipped through it in the past, but he took it off to xray instead, holding it high over his head like it was a burning stinkbomb. Never the same routine twice.

My wallet doesn't look anything else other than wallet. The theatrics surrounding it were amusing today, but that routine is going to get old very fast. I'll think I'll keep it pocketed until they begin their "patdown" speech in the future.

gojirasan May 27, 2011 4:46 pm


Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16457621)
NOS is primary now.

What?! Is that all you are going to say on the matter? I hope this is not your idea of a joke.

FriendlySkies May 29, 2011 6:34 pm

More evidence of conditioning.. DEN is following their friends at ORD, and putting cones in front of the WTMD, making all pax go through the NoS. They seemed to realize that the long lines were due to the NoS, so a WTMD opened up to clear the backlog, but they have gone back to putting all pax through the NoS..

Himeno May 30, 2011 4:21 pm

Just went through SJC Term A. Only one lane open, duel WTMD/NoS. They are also doing the go slow bag xray and directing people to the NoS.

I self selected the WTMD side when I noticed they were directing primarily towards the NoS. I timed sorting out the bins so that there would be at least 1 person waiting for the NoS when I got there. I pushed my bags into the xray and was about to step through the WTMD when the guard on the other side stopped me and questioned the person feeding the NoS. NoS was backing up so I got through the WTMD, then waited for my bags.
Bags got out when the person ahead of me was leaving the NoS.

MrAndy1369 Jun 1, 2011 4:15 am

Any reports for DCA (my primary airport)?

I find this hard to believe, though... I thought TSA was less smart than this? ;)

red456 Jun 1, 2011 6:17 am


Originally Posted by Andy1369 (Post 16482973)
Any reports for DCA (my primary airport)?

I find this hard to believe, though... I thought TSA was less smart than this? ;)


TSA is passive-aggressive. They won't come right out and state "NOS is now the primary means of screening passengers" so they set up all sorts of obstacles to try to force people through.

N965VJ Jun 1, 2011 11:57 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 16483302)
TSA is passive-aggressive. They won't come right out and state "NOS is now the primary means of screening passengers" so they set up all sorts of obstacles to try to force people through.

Did you miss this:

Originally Posted by eyecue (Post 16457621)
NOS is primary now.

Oh, and a big :)^ for acknowledging these things for what they are.

FriendlySkies Jun 1, 2011 11:58 am


Originally Posted by red456 (Post 16483302)
TSA is passive-aggressive. They won't come right out and state "NOS is now the primary means of screening passengers" so they set up all sorts of obstacles to try to force people through.

Exactly.. This was the scene from DEN. Notice the orange cone in front of the WTMD.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6704316_n.jpg

red456 Jun 1, 2011 11:59 am


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 16485182)
Did you miss this:


Originally Posted by eyecue View Post
NOS is primary now.

No, I didn't miss it - but the TSA itself has not set forth that NOS is primary.

janetdoe Jun 1, 2011 4:17 pm

If eyecue's assertion that "NoS is primary now" is true (and I have no reason to doubt him other than previous TSA spokespeople saying that would never happen), then...

Is it possible that a widespread observations of WTMD being slowed down so that more people more through NoS is simply so the TSOs can meet a new quota? i.e. they have to make NoS primary by admitting more people through NoS than WTMD, and the only way to do it is to slow down the WTMD?

I would appreciate any TSOs who can confirm or deny this chiming in!

ETA: I noticed some strange checkpoint statistics at DFW and SEA this weekend, where lines I would normally expect to move quickly were moving slowly, but I didn't connect the dots to a larger pattern.

Superguy Jun 1, 2011 5:47 pm


Originally Posted by N965VJ (Post 16485182)
Oh, and a big :)^ for acknowledging these things for what they are.

Still a far cry from anyone with any power, like management, Pissy, or BB saying that though.

Superguy Jun 1, 2011 5:47 pm


Originally Posted by FriendlySkies (Post 16485198)
Exactly.. This was the scene from DEN. Notice the orange cone in front of the WTMD.

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphot..._6704316_n.jpg

I noticed a lot of people standing around doing nothing.


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