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Old May 14, 2011 | 1:50 am
  #31  
 
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Every time I have checked in a bag at ORD or LGA, I've lost the lock.
50% of the time I've checked a bag at DFW, I've lost the lock.

My bags have been opened by TSA at least 7 times. I have never seen a note.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 8:47 am
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by Himeno
Every time I have checked in a bag at ORD or LGA, I've lost the lock.
50% of the time I've checked a bag at DFW, I've lost the lock.

My bags have been opened by TSA at least 7 times. I have never seen a note.
Get better locks and better luggage.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 10:18 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
Why? So the TSA can just destroy those, too?

(Or try to, anyway?)

I like the "firearm" method, but it still calls for hardsided luggage. But without the "firearm" paperwork, I have a sinking feeling that the TSA would simply destroy the Pelican case trying to get the lock off of it.

Heck, they might destroy it anyway, even with the "firearm" paperwork, just because they can.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 10:36 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by Caradoc
Why? So the TSA can just destroy those, too?

(Or try to, anyway?)

I like the "firearm" method, but it still calls for hardsided luggage. But without the "firearm" paperwork, I have a sinking feeling that the TSA would simply destroy the Pelican case trying to get the lock off of it.

Heck, they might destroy it anyway, even with the "firearm" paperwork, just because they can.
I've seen evidence of them attempting to open my luggage, but they have never succeeded.

After the first time I saw that, I etched my name and cell number directly above the lock attachment point... Now they usually page me to get the key, and I've been able to witness the search (sometimes I have to show them the FAR 1544.293 text that states that I have to be present).

I put the flare guns in my luggage EVERY TIME I fly (and check bags) in the US. I haven't traveled outside the US since I started using this method. I'll be transiting thru Canada next week, so I have to do a little research and see if I can take my flare guns thru YVR without creating an international incident.

I do NOT recommend using small hard cases (pistol cases) inside of soft sided luggage... they can, and do, (see the Israeli Pistol debacle) steal the small cases, which are easily smuggled out of the airport inside backpacks, etc. Large travel cases are not as easy to spirit away with no one else noticing.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 1:39 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
I've seen evidence of them attempting to open my luggage, but they have never succeeded.
Most attempts will be "nondestructive penetration." If you're willing to damage the case in a highly noticeable manner, a well-padlocked Pelican box can be opened in under three seconds.

Of course, anyone within earshot will be well aware that something has happened...

Since the TSA has been willing to perform "destructive penetration" for lesser reasons, it is logical to assume that a well-padlocked Pelican or other hard case will only serve as a deterrent, and not a prevention.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 3:16 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
It was a ORD-DFW flight where the TSA attempted, but failed, to cut my lock off. They never attempted to contact me, and didn't leave a note (likely because they couldn't get in).

I really, REALLY like using Federal Regulations to thwart theft by your more sticky fingered compatriots.
You didnt mention that.

I have had to cut TSA locks in the past. Our standing order at my airport is to secure the lock with tape to the "love note" we put in your bag and include a reason if able. Usually its because the key we have wont open the lock (broken lock, bad key, and other reasons), and sometimes its because its not really a TSA approved lock (there are a few counterfeits out there). I had one that had the TSA key port stuffed with year old chewing gum once, hard as a rock. I dont have the time to deal with that kind of childishness so I got permission to cut it and did so.

We dont cut locks just to be cutting locks, its a waste of our time.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 4:15 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon
You didnt mention that.

I have had to cut TSA locks in the past. Our standing order at my airport is to secure the lock with tape to the "love note" we put in your bag and include a reason if able. Usually its because the key we have wont open the lock (broken lock, bad key, and other reasons), and sometimes its because its not really a TSA approved lock (there are a few counterfeits out there). I had one that had the TSA key port stuffed with year old chewing gum once, hard as a rock. I dont have the time to deal with that kind of childishness so I got permission to cut it and did so.

We dont cut locks just to be cutting locks, its a waste of our time.
In my situation, (US-US travel, hard side luggage, strong (Grade 5, hardened steel) lock TSA can't easily cut, name/number etched above the lock) where the bag has already passed primary screening (CTX), if one of the TSA personnel decide they need to see in the bag, what are they trained to do? Remember that FAR 1544.293 does not allow any external marking of a case holding firearms.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 4:22 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by Caradoc
Most attempts will be "nondestructive penetration." If you're willing to damage the case in a highly noticeable manner, a well-padlocked Pelican box can be opened in under three seconds.

Of course, anyone within earshot will be well aware that something has happened...

Since the TSA has been willing to perform "destructive penetration" for lesser reasons, it is logical to assume that a well-padlocked Pelican or other hard case will only serve as a deterrent, and not a prevention.
Well, destructive, noisy penetration pretty much negates the stealth needed when stealing from luggage.

If my case gets damaged I plan on seeking redress thru the airline, TSA and my homeowners insurance... If it gets opened, I will be making a HUGE stink at the airport about the TSA letting a firearm loose withing the "secure" area of the airport. In that case, I will also be calling the cops, the local FSD and the local media.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 5:13 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon

We dont cut locks just to be cutting locks, its a waste of our time.
Perhaps not in your airport but the screener behind homelandsecurity.com reported never seeing a TSA lock key in four years at LAX. I know I have lost several new ones purchased from reputable places. It didn't occur to me before they were cut I just thought screeners were too lazy to put them back on.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 5:36 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon
I have had to cut TSA locks in the past. Our standing order at my airport is to secure the lock with tape to the "love note" we put in your bag and include a reason if able.
Is this "merely" a local policy, or is this standard practice at all airports? (Insert usual rant about "consistency" here ...)
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Old May 14, 2011 | 6:04 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
Well, destructive, noisy penetration pretty much negates the stealth needed when stealing from luggage.
Agreed.

But who needs stealth when they're claiming the authority to do it "in an abundance of caution?"

The TSA and its employees will come up with another lame excuse for any behavior they choose to exhibit.

All we can do it continue to make it harder for them.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 6:17 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by StanSimmons
In my situation, (US-US travel, hard side luggage, strong (Grade 5, hardened steel) lock TSA can't easily cut, name/number etched above the lock) where the bag has already passed primary screening (CTX), if one of the TSA personnel decide they need to see in the bag, what are they trained to do? Remember that FAR 1544.293 does not allow any external marking of a case holding firearms.
Typically is they are unable to open the bag they will ask the carrier to page the passenger back to the counter. Failing that, the bag will not fly. You may, but your bag wont. It gets turned over to the carrier foir disposition.

Originally Posted by sheneh
Perhaps not in your airport but the screener behind homelandsecurity.com reported never seeing a TSA lock key in four years at LAX. I know I have lost several new ones purchased from reputable places. It didn't occur to me before they were cut I just thought screeners were too lazy to put them back on.
Undoubtedly that happens occasionally. Other times we are so busy that we forget. I can’t speak for LAX, I don’t work there, but I have been there once or twice and know that it’s a very busy place.

Originally Posted by jkhuggins
Is this "merely" a local policy, or is this standard practice at all airports? (Insert usual rant about "consistency" here ...)
Coundn't tell ya, I only work at one airport.

Originally Posted by Caradoc
Agreed.

But who needs stealth when they're claiming the authority to do it "in an abundance of caution?"

The TSA and its employees will come up with another lame excuse for any behavior they choose to exhibit.

All we can do it continue to make it harder for them.
Make it as hard as you like. Either the bag fly's or it does not. Your choice. If we need to get into it and can't then you might want to have a good department store in mind before climbing on board your aircraft.

Last edited by TSORon; May 14, 2011 at 6:23 pm Reason: Merge consecutive posts
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Old May 14, 2011 | 6:56 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by TSORon
Make it as hard as you like. Either the bag fly's or it does not. Your choice. If we need to get into it and can't then you might want to have a good department store in mind before climbing on board your aircraft.
Thank you for proving my point.

Everyone might want to take notice, here: if the TSA thinks they need to open baggage, they're going to open the baggage no matter what their own website says, as per TSORon.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 7:00 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by Caradoc
Thank you for proving my point.

Everyone might want to take notice, here: if the TSA thinks they need to open baggage, they're going to open the baggage no matter what their own website says, as per TSORon.
Gee, now thats not what I said is it.

Please, read what I wrote, not what you wanted it to say.
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Old May 14, 2011 | 7:27 pm
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by TSORon
Typically is they are unable to open the bag they will ask the carrier to page the passenger back to the counter. Failing that, the bag will not fly. You may, but your bag wont. It gets turned over to the carrier foir disposition.
So, even though the bag has already been thru the CTX machine and has been open and inspected, in my presence, some blue-shirt further down the line could just decide to not let it fly? That doesn't seem right.
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