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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 10:46 am
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by SWCPHX
The folks they pulled over in MI should've known that they had the right to say no to a search of their cell phone or their vehicle. I don't feel sorry at all for somebody stupid enough to get caught like this. As for the folks in CA, well don't do something that is likely to get you arrested, problem solved.
That's great except the TSA's rules are secret, so you don't know if you did anything "wrong" until they tell you and detain you.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 12:35 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by eturowski
Like a password, but you have to touch the buttons in a certain order.

I doubt that this device will even notice a "pattern lock".
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 12:46 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by Popperian
Just so all of you know, they can already upload software remotely to your phone and even record ambient nearby conversations when the phone is powered off.

There have been court cases showing that the FBI was doing this in some mob investigations, that's how it became public.

The -only- way your cellphone is not compromised is if you remove the battery.

So this "extract info from the phones" thing is sort of a joke honestly ...
I'm sorry, but I have to call BS on this. Do you have anything you can reference to substantiate this claim?
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 2:02 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by MikeMpls
I doubt that this device will even notice a "pattern lock".
No, and given how willingly Verizon et. al. violate the 4th Amendment to provide the federal government with data since the Patriot Act was passed, I don't expect it to. But I will deter nosy, prying parties, including law enforcement, when possible.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 2:06 pm
  #20  
 
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Originally Posted by VelvetJones
Technically this isn't the same thing. The California ruling involved people already arrested. In the Michigan case they were scanning phones of people pulled over for simple traffic stops. Wrong in both cases, but Michigan was taking a big leap on this one. Like the TSA, they've apparently given up on even pretending to act in a constitutional manner.
Living in MI, the local geeks jumped all over this. Where we're at:

Best guess is that there's 5 units in the state, all in forensics labs. So the phone would have to be confiscated, which presumably would required a criminal act to have occured, and a criminal search to occur (for confiscating the phone). Nothing saying that a unit can't go mobile, and used in the field, yet not sure how that would work (legally).

The one bugger is, having grown up in FL, it was always explained to me that when you are pulled over and ticketed, you have technically been arrested, released on your OR, and the ticket is your bail bond. Signing the ticket isn't admitting guilt, it's agreeing that you'll answer to the ticket (pay, go to court and plead/fight, etc). It's the time between when the ticket is written, and you've signed it... are you still under arrest, and now a criminal search can be performed?

Yet, by all means... these things need to be brought out into the sunshine, and people need to know the search and seizure risks that exist for all forms of law enforcement (including the TSA, which has a law enforcement arm, and also works with LEOs at the airport).
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 3:32 pm
  #21  
 
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Unless the cell phone was used in a crime or they have a warrant, this is an unconstitutional act and if a cop or even a smurf tries this with me, I am not going to agree even if it means I don't fly that day and I will go to court on this issue if it comes up in my life. That's so communist Russia that its pathetic what those cops are doing.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 3:34 pm
  #22  
 
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The problem with the so called unwritten rules of TSA is that it leads to abuse and a a random policy generator and if they are depriving you of something or requiring something, then you are entitled to appeal or have their decision reviewed--some kind of due process rights-- and if its secret then that would be unconstitutional. Just saying national security doesn't cut it
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 3:35 pm
  #23  
 
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Originally Posted by Popperian
Just so all of you know, they can already upload software remotely to your phone and even record ambient nearby conversations when the phone is powered off.

There have been court cases showing that the FBI was doing this in some mob investigations, that's how it became public.

The -only- way your cellphone is not compromised is if you remove the battery.

So this "extract info from the phones" thing is sort of a joke honestly ...
Incorrect. They can do that if your phone is suspended or "asleep" (e.g. the state your phone is in when you can press the power button and have it nearly instantly return to an unlock screen or menu). If your phone is off, the CPU, RAM, and radio aren't getting power and nothing can be manipulated or compromised.

Removing the battery is definitely not the only way to keep it from being compromised - but it is the best way to be sure.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 5:43 pm
  #24  
 
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Cell Phone Security

Originally Posted by Popperian
Just so all of you know, they can already upload software remotely to your phone and even record ambient nearby conversations when the phone is powered off.

There have been court cases showing that the FBI was doing this in some mob investigations, that's how it became public.

The -only- way your cellphone is not compromised is if you remove the battery.

So this "extract info from the phones" thing is sort of a joke honestly ...
==================================================
A "pattern lock" is a good idea but if you don't have one there are other options. To avoid fbi eavesdropping without removing the battery you can keep your phone in a metal container or wrap it in aluminium foil to prevent reception and defeat the "localizer"(gps).
This will also defeat RFID's in credit cards and other small items by preventing a return signal.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 6:01 pm
  #25  
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And word comes today that Apple keeps a track log of time and GPS locations on iPhones and 3G iPads. Makes it very, very easy for someone with one of these devices to track where you've been at all times.

Let the litigation begin.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 6:06 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
And word comes today that Apple keeps a track log of time and GPS locations on iPhones and 3G iPads. Makes it very, very easy for someone with one of these devices to track where you've been at all times.

Let the litigation begin.
It also makes iPhones and iPads very easy for the police to find when they're stolen from you.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 6:26 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by SWCPHX
It also makes iPhones and iPads very easy for the police to find when they're stolen from you.
How? The data is kept as an unencrypted file on the device. Yes, there is a "locate me" service from Apple, but that's a separate deal. What I'm talking about is months of track data is kept as a file on the phone.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 6:50 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
How? The data is kept as an unencrypted file on the device. Yes, there is a "locate me" service from Apple, but that's a separate deal. What I'm talking about is months of track data is kept as a file on the phone.
Well thats where you turn off location services and it stops that log as if the phone doesnt know where it is then there isnt a problem. More then one way to skin a cat.

The pattern lock is a feature of android based phone which is pretty good, i wish apple would impliment that as its much more secure then a 4 digit pass-code.
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Old Apr 20, 2011 | 6:52 pm
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Global_Hi_Flyer
How? The data is kept as an unencrypted file on the device. Yes, there is a "locate me" service from Apple, but that's a separate deal. What I'm talking about is months of track data is kept as a file on the phone.
Ah okay, my mistake, I didn't know that they were separate functions.
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