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FlyerTalk Forums (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/index.php)
-   Practical Travel Safety and Security Issues (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues-686/)
-   -   TSA won't negotiate on security (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1198116-tsa-wont-negotiate-security.html)

Olton Hall Mar 24, 2011 4:37 pm
Originally Posted by Boraxo (Post 16095718)
Maybe it is time for Congress to take the toys away from the babies...
I was talking to a former administrator of another federal agency that some thought got out of hand on a power trip years ago. The pressure people put on the congress critters lead to a big cut in funding which meant big cut backs and now they aren't out of control. The politicians don't get blamed for making the country less safe as they say the money isn't there anymore for a full funding. He says it's very common for this to happen to all agencies and departments from time to time.

Saitek Mar 24, 2011 4:48 pm
People in Germany said 'It cant happen here, we are a democratic country'

And it did.

People in the United States, say 'It cant happen here, we are a democratic country'

And it is.

barbell Mar 24, 2011 5:06 pm
Whoo boy! I hope Nico's daddy doesn't read those comments like he does around here...

jordanmills Mar 24, 2011 5:32 pm
Then they can start going to jail.

Flaflyer Mar 24, 2011 5:52 pm
TSA spokesman Nico Melendez. . . says the TSA is looking for opportunities to educate but not negotiate security requirements.
Apologies if I offend Mr. Godwin, although I am not calling the spokeshole the N name, but when the government says this it reminds me too much of:

1942 example of "not negotiate security requirements":

"No option, get in the cattle car."

1942 example of "educate but not negotiate security requirements":

"You are going East to a death camp. No option, get in the cattle car." :td:

MG2779 Mar 24, 2011 5:57 pm
Wasn't Napolitano against REAL ID? Or at least a big critic of it?

WindOfFreedom Mar 24, 2011 5:59 pm
Originally Posted by IslandBased (Post 16096051)
I think he meant to say indoctrinate, or maybe propagate. They do look for opportunities to expand and fester.
Indoctrinate and coerce. "Submit or don't fly" is still the rubric. They just don't get it.

robsat1845 Mar 24, 2011 6:01 pm
If members of congress had to go thru the same security things would change. I have seen a few times how they are passed over. If fact I was next to a staff member of congress. Got the crew treatment. Lol. And I pay this guys check.

RadioGirl Mar 24, 2011 7:04 pm
Originally Posted by Al Coholic (Post 16095806)
Did I hear the sound of a bullet hitting a foot?
Well, here's hoping they aim higher next time... ;)
Originally Posted by Boggie Dog (Post 16095839)
TSA's plans to outreach to medical and special needs communities is not adequate.
+1, and in three different senses:

- It's not adequate to reach out to ONLY the medical and special needs communities; they need to respect the rights of all passengers. BTW, I suspect that these "communities" are not clearly defined in the first place. While they can visit Walter Reed Hospital and talk to amputees or paraplegics or others with permanent, obvious medical requirements, what official group represents those with temporary or less obvious limitations? Someone with a wound from recent surgery, or the person with arthritis who has difficulty standing in line?

- The WAY they reach out is (to be kind) inadequate. I suspect it's largely talk ("We have to do this, this and this to keep America safe, so shut up and do what you're told") and very little listening.

- Their FOLLOWUP in training TSA screeners to deal with medical and special needs (or indeed the rights of every passenger) is (to be kind) inadequate.

On 10/20/09, BB wrote in PV:
To help us better understand how to screen persons with disabilities (PWDs), TSA established a coalition of over 70 disability-related groups and organizations with disabilities and medical conditions. These groups have assisted TSA with writing our policies to help us thoroughly screen PWDs while ensuring they are treated with dignity and respect. Our officers are regularly trained on screening people with disabilities.
On 2/22/10, in response to the story where a 4-yr-old boy was forced to remove his leg braces, BB wrote:
When it comes to screening passengers with disabilities, our officers receive Passengers with Disabilities (PWD) training upon being hired and are required to take annual PWD courses.

In order to achieve that goal, TSA has established a program for screening of persons with disabilities and their associated equipment, mobility aids, and devices. Our program covers all categories of disabilities (mobility, hearing, visual, and hidden).
On 3/22/10, Lynn at PV wrote an entire post about consulting with veterans at Walter Reed.

On 11/24/10, BB responded to the Thomas Sawyer urostomy incident by saying:
We’re reviewing the training that’s already being provided to our officers to see if needs to be updated. When our officers are hired, they are given extensive training on screening passengers with disabilities and they continue to receive recurring training throughout their career. TSA has established a coalition of over 70 disability-related groups and organizations to help us understand the concerns of persons with disabilities and medical conditions. These groups have assisted TSA with integrating the unique needs of persons with disabilities into our airport operations.
IOW, TSA has been "consulting" and "understanding" and "developing procedures" and "training" for some time now, but it doesn't seem to be working. Every incident is explained away with "don't see how THAT could've happened after all this training our people get." :td: :td: :td: :td:

N965VJ Mar 24, 2011 7:31 pm
Originally Posted by Associated Press
TSA spokesman Nico Melendez tells The Associated Press his agency is looking at similar situations around the country where legislators have expressed concerns about security procedures. He says the TSA is looking for opportunities to educate but not negotiate security requirements.
"Educate but not negotiate" reminds me of "Federalize to professionalize" :rolleyes:



Originally Posted by barbell (Post 16096602)
Whoo boy! I hope Nico's daddy doesn't read those comments like he does around here...
:D

Boggie Dog Mar 24, 2011 7:40 pm
Originally Posted by barbell (Post 16096602)
Whoo boy! I hope Nico's daddy doesn't read those comments like he does around here...
I hope he does. Someone needs to box Nico on the ears and who better than a father?

Boggie Dog Mar 24, 2011 7:42 pm
Originally Posted by RadioGirl (Post 16097238)
Well, here's hoping they aim higher next time... ;)

+1, and in three different senses:

- It's not adequate to reach out to ONLY the medical and special needs communities; they need to respect the rights of all passengers. BTW, I suspect that these "communities" are not clearly defined in the first place. While they can visit Walter Reed Hospital and talk to amputees or paraplegics or others with permanent, obvious medical requirements, what official group represents those with temporary or less obvious limitations? Someone with a wound from recent surgery, or the person with arthritis who has difficulty standing in line?

- The WAY they reach out is (to be kind) inadequate. I suspect it's largely talk ("We have to do this, this and this to keep America safe, so shut up and do what you're told") and very little listening.

- Their FOLLOWUP in training TSA screeners to deal with medical and special needs (or indeed the rights of every passenger) is (to be kind) inadequate.

On 10/20/09, BB wrote in PV:


On 2/22/10, in response to the story where a 4-yr-old boy was forced to remove his leg braces, BB wrote:


On 3/22/10, Lynn at PV wrote an entire post about consulting with veterans at Walter Reed.

On 11/24/10, BB responded to the Thomas Sawyer urostomy incident by saying:


IOW, TSA has been "consulting" and "understanding" and "developing procedures" and "training" for some time now, but it doesn't seem to be working. Every incident is explained away with "don't see how THAT could've happened after all this training our people get." :td: :td: :td: :td:
Training is being wasted on the untrainable.

LuvAirFrance Mar 24, 2011 8:12 pm
He says the TSA is looking for opportunities to educate but not negotiate security requirements.
Political hogwash. "Educate". Yeh, right, everyone OUTSIDE TSA is so STUPID. They have meetings where they wring their hands and say "How can we EDUCATE those people?" Guess what guys. We who are protesting don't NEED your "educators". We need an end to your arrogance. Yesterday would be good for us.

Every time I hear or read something by one of their number, I am amazed how they can't open their mouths without find a new way to offend the public. Where did their parents fail in their upbringing?

Caradoc Mar 24, 2011 9:18 pm
Originally Posted by LuvAirFrance (Post 16097577)
Where did their parents fail in their upbringing?
According to at least one TSA employee, they're raised in petri dishes. Sporogenesis (or pure binary fission, for that matter) obviates the need for "parents."

LuvAirFrance Mar 24, 2011 9:19 pm
No one learns social skills in petri dishes. Lack of parents would certainly explain a social skills deficity.


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