Groped In SAN
Feb 8, 2011 | 7:09 am
#16
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Programs: Priority Club, HiltonHonors, US Airways Dividend Miles, Airtran A+
Posts: 44
Feb 8, 2011 | 7:13 am
#18
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Getting your genitals rubbed because you participated in legal activities, beneficial activities like golfing, does not that seem wrong to you TSA? To have this done to you for playing golf, walking in a public park, or using the wrong hand lotion is beyond simple assault. It should be prosecuted under RICO.
Feb 8, 2011 | 7:18 am
#19
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
Premature TSanation. They're already used to that and have the protocols ready. They jailed one poor fellow who couldn't contain himself. [well, maybe not yet, but with 700 million served, it's just a matter of time ing]
Last edited by nachtnebel; Feb 8, 2011 at 9:39 am Reason: quoted incident deebunkt
Feb 8, 2011 | 11:12 am
#22
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: FLL & PIT
Programs: Marriott Platinum for Life.
Posts: 1,235
This one always sets off the swab for me.....
http://www.neutrogena.com/product/mo...by=bestSellers
It's GLYCERIN-RICH!! Don't you want to have ultrasmooth hands so you can play touch and tickle with your favorite TSO?
.
http://www.neutrogena.com/product/mo...by=bestSellers
It's GLYCERIN-RICH!! Don't you want to have ultrasmooth hands so you can play touch and tickle with your favorite TSO?
.
Feb 8, 2011 | 11:46 am
#23
Suspended
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,953
I apologize in advance for the length. This was my first time being groped and I needed a place to vent and to share my experiences.
Synopsis: Long wait...defective equipment and 2 TSO's who knew it was "silly" for me to have to endure the resolution pat-down because of a faulty piece of equipment that was "crap".
Flew out of SAN Sunday morning and was chosen for the nude-o-scope. I opted out. There was a little bit of a loud announcement that they needed a Male assist. I was asked to stand by a chair to wait for the guy who would be doing the deed.
I pointed out that I could not see my stuff the TSO manning the NOS said "there are cameras monitoring the area" presumably to convince me I had nothing to worry about. I then turned to another TSO and with a bit more forceful voice said "I can't see my stuff" she directed me to stand close to the baggage screening machine so that I could keep an eye on my belongings.
There was a significant delay, at least 15 minutes before they could get a male TSO...this, in spite of the fact that I saw several walking back and forth. Eventually, the ID checker was the one who did the standard pat-down.
At one point, as I waited, the WTMD agent motioned me to come through, it was tempting to do it, but I told her I was waiting for the opt out pat-down. I was afraid it would lead to a terminal dump if I skipped on through. I wasn't about to create trouble for every other person simply trying to fly from point A to point B. After a few more minutes, she apologized for the delay. A bit later, another TSO apologized for the delay.
All of the TSO's I encountered were polite and professional excepting the TSO manning the NOS, who basically glared at me as I was waiting.
Finally, I am called over by the TSO who would do the pat down. He did not "touch my junk". But he did run his hand around my waistband and flat handed my bum.
He then did the swab thing and, bingo, I alarmed. He asked me if I was a golfer and I confirmed this. Of course, this led to the resolution patdown in the private room. Unfortunately, there was another wait for a 3 striper but the room was being used and we had to wait some more. The 3 striper was called away and when the room became available we had to wait again until a 2 striper came in to do the resolution grope.
He did not grab my junk but he did rub pretty firmly with a flat hand. He then went back out with a new swab and a couple of minutes later I was released.
Here is what I found particularly interesting. As I was getting the resolution grope, the swab machine went off a couple more times and the 1 striper said to the 2 striper, there must be something wrong with the machine because nearly everyone is alarming and the numbers were too high. The 2-striper was in agreement. And, it was clear they were a little embarrassed by it and were somewhat apologetic towards me.
While the 2-striper was out getting me "resolved", I told the 1-striper that it sounds like they had some equipment issues and he said, and this is a direct quote, "It is a piece of crap". I don't recall exactly what he said after that because I was blown away by such a candid admission.
I got to the gate about 2 minutes before boarding began. Fortunately, I was able to use the priority lane or I could have missed the flight.
Sadly, I did not see anyone else who was obviously opting out...I did see a few folks who triggered the WMTD and NOS getting patdowns.
So, my take away from my first opt-out:
If you are planning on opting out, get there extra early. The whole pat-down process took a total of about 45 minutes because of the delays.
Don't play golf the day before you fly
There are at least 2 TSO's who have enough common sense to recognize something as "silly" and "crap". Who knows, maybe they will have enough sense to quit this unconstitutional treatment of their fellow citizens.
There are not enough people opting out.
One final point: It appeared to be about 50% going though the NOS.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Synopsis: Long wait...defective equipment and 2 TSO's who knew it was "silly" for me to have to endure the resolution pat-down because of a faulty piece of equipment that was "crap".
Flew out of SAN Sunday morning and was chosen for the nude-o-scope. I opted out. There was a little bit of a loud announcement that they needed a Male assist. I was asked to stand by a chair to wait for the guy who would be doing the deed.
I pointed out that I could not see my stuff the TSO manning the NOS said "there are cameras monitoring the area" presumably to convince me I had nothing to worry about. I then turned to another TSO and with a bit more forceful voice said "I can't see my stuff" she directed me to stand close to the baggage screening machine so that I could keep an eye on my belongings.
There was a significant delay, at least 15 minutes before they could get a male TSO...this, in spite of the fact that I saw several walking back and forth. Eventually, the ID checker was the one who did the standard pat-down.
At one point, as I waited, the WTMD agent motioned me to come through, it was tempting to do it, but I told her I was waiting for the opt out pat-down. I was afraid it would lead to a terminal dump if I skipped on through. I wasn't about to create trouble for every other person simply trying to fly from point A to point B. After a few more minutes, she apologized for the delay. A bit later, another TSO apologized for the delay.
All of the TSO's I encountered were polite and professional excepting the TSO manning the NOS, who basically glared at me as I was waiting.
Finally, I am called over by the TSO who would do the pat down. He did not "touch my junk". But he did run his hand around my waistband and flat handed my bum.
He then did the swab thing and, bingo, I alarmed. He asked me if I was a golfer and I confirmed this. Of course, this led to the resolution patdown in the private room. Unfortunately, there was another wait for a 3 striper but the room was being used and we had to wait some more. The 3 striper was called away and when the room became available we had to wait again until a 2 striper came in to do the resolution grope.
He did not grab my junk but he did rub pretty firmly with a flat hand. He then went back out with a new swab and a couple of minutes later I was released.
Here is what I found particularly interesting. As I was getting the resolution grope, the swab machine went off a couple more times and the 1 striper said to the 2 striper, there must be something wrong with the machine because nearly everyone is alarming and the numbers were too high. The 2-striper was in agreement. And, it was clear they were a little embarrassed by it and were somewhat apologetic towards me.
While the 2-striper was out getting me "resolved", I told the 1-striper that it sounds like they had some equipment issues and he said, and this is a direct quote, "It is a piece of crap". I don't recall exactly what he said after that because I was blown away by such a candid admission.
I got to the gate about 2 minutes before boarding began. Fortunately, I was able to use the priority lane or I could have missed the flight.
Sadly, I did not see anyone else who was obviously opting out...I did see a few folks who triggered the WMTD and NOS getting patdowns.
So, my take away from my first opt-out:
If you are planning on opting out, get there extra early. The whole pat-down process took a total of about 45 minutes because of the delays.
Don't play golf the day before you fly
There are at least 2 TSO's who have enough common sense to recognize something as "silly" and "crap". Who knows, maybe they will have enough sense to quit this unconstitutional treatment of their fellow citizens.
There are not enough people opting out.
One final point: It appeared to be about 50% going though the NOS.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Feb 8, 2011 | 1:07 pm
#24
Join Date: Nov 2010
Programs: AA Platinum, HH Diamond
Posts: 67
I had a very similar experience flying out of SAN on Saturday! When I told the TSA agent routing folks through the NOS that I was opting out, he actually told me that he was a microbiologist and knew all about radiation levels. I don't know if he was pulling my chain or not but he neither questioned, disputed, or reinforced my opting out. I stood by for about five minutes. Interestingly, toward the end of this time something started going wrong with the NOS and they had to start routing people through the WTMD. Oh, and also interesting, the lady behind me was drop dead gorgeous and wearing a low-cut top and they sent her through the WTMD for no apparent reason. This tells me the TSA is very sensitive to the charges that have been made about their use of the NOS.
Anyway, at a certain point the same TSA agent tells me if someone does not come soon in response to his repeated requests for a male assist, that he will do it himself so I can be on my way. I think that was BS because he clearly had a job to do routing folks into the NOS; he was clearly just trying to placate me and bide time.
Also during this time I mentioned that I could no longer see my belongings and he immediately had me move over to where I could see them - he did follow procedure here.
The initial pat-down was very professional. They kept my posessions with me the whole time, the agent told me in advance everything he was going to do, made sure I saw him change his gloves, and in fact did not go all the way up when he was patting up the insides of my legs. At the end I actually commended him for his professionalism. But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.
The pat-down in the room was very thorough. He *did* go all the way up, and all the way around my pelvis with quite a bit of pressure using the front of his hands. Although he did tell me everything he was going to do in advance and asked if I had any sensitive areas. It was invasive and annoying and clearly a violation of my fourth amendment rights, but other than insisting that the second screening be done in the private room they did follow their own procedures.
From now on I'll take the time to drive to SNA.
Anyway, at a certain point the same TSA agent tells me if someone does not come soon in response to his repeated requests for a male assist, that he will do it himself so I can be on my way. I think that was BS because he clearly had a job to do routing folks into the NOS; he was clearly just trying to placate me and bide time.
Also during this time I mentioned that I could no longer see my belongings and he immediately had me move over to where I could see them - he did follow procedure here.
The initial pat-down was very professional. They kept my posessions with me the whole time, the agent told me in advance everything he was going to do, made sure I saw him change his gloves, and in fact did not go all the way up when he was patting up the insides of my legs. At the end I actually commended him for his professionalism. But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.
The pat-down in the room was very thorough. He *did* go all the way up, and all the way around my pelvis with quite a bit of pressure using the front of his hands. Although he did tell me everything he was going to do in advance and asked if I had any sensitive areas. It was invasive and annoying and clearly a violation of my fourth amendment rights, but other than insisting that the second screening be done in the private room they did follow their own procedures.
From now on I'll take the time to drive to SNA.
Last edited by cguzik; Feb 8, 2011 at 1:13 pm
Feb 8, 2011 | 1:11 pm
#25
Original Poster
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: SAN
Posts: 6,242
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9550/5.0.0.1015 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/105)
So I take it from the highlighted statement that they did nothing to you that could not have been done out in public. Is that correct?
Correct. It was basically the same patdown with the addition of going further up and actually patting my groin.
Someone mentioned retaliation...It crossed my mind as I was waiting for so long to get the initial patdown that retaliation might be in the equation because a lot of male tsos were wandering around the checkpoint.
Originally Posted by doober
I apologize in advance for the length. This was my first time being groped and I needed a place to vent and to share my experiences.
Synopsis: Long wait...defective equipment and 2 TSO's who knew it was "silly" for me to have to endure the resolution pat-down because of a faulty piece of equipment that was "crap".
Flew out of SAN Sunday morning and was chosen for the nude-o-scope. I opted out. There was a little bit of a loud announcement that they needed a Male assist. I was asked to stand by a chair to wait for the guy who would be doing the deed.
I pointed out that I could not see my stuff the TSO manning the NOS said "there are cameras monitoring the area" presumably to convince me I had nothing to worry about. I then turned to another TSO and with a bit more forceful voice said "I can't see my stuff" she directed me to stand close to the baggage screening machine so that I could keep an eye on my belongings.
There was a significant delay, at least 15 minutes before they could get a male TSO...this, in spite of the fact that I saw several walking back and forth. Eventually, the ID checker was the one who did the standard pat-down.
At one point, as I waited, the WTMD agent motioned me to come through, it was tempting to do it, but I told her I was waiting for the opt out pat-down. I was afraid it would lead to a terminal dump if I skipped on through. I wasn't about to create trouble for every other person simply trying to fly from point A to point B. After a few more minutes, she apologized for the delay. A bit later, another TSO apologized for the delay.
All of the TSO's I encountered were polite and professional excepting the TSO manning the NOS, who basically glared at me as I was waiting.
Finally, I am called over by the TSO who would do the pat down. He did not "touch my junk". But he did run his hand around my waistband and flat handed my bum.
He then did the swab thing and, bingo, I alarmed. He asked me if I was a golfer and I confirmed this. Of course, this led to the resolution patdown in the private room. Unfortunately, there was another wait for a 3 striper but the room was being used and we had to wait some more. The 3 striper was called away and when the room became available we had to wait again until a 2 striper came in to do the resolution grope.
He did not grab my junk but he did rub pretty firmly with a flat hand. He then went back out with a new swab and a couple of minutes later I was released.
Here is what I found particularly interesting. As I was getting the resolution grope, the swab machine went off a couple more times and the 1 striper said to the 2 striper, there must be something wrong with the machine because nearly everyone is alarming and the numbers were too high. The 2-striper was in agreement. And, it was clear they were a little embarrassed by it and were somewhat apologetic towards me.
While the 2-striper was out getting me "resolved", I told the 1-striper that it sounds like they had some equipment issues and he said, and this is a direct quote, "It is a piece of crap". I don't recall exactly what he said after that because I was blown away by such a candid admission.
I got to the gate about 2 minutes before boarding began. Fortunately, I was able to use the priority lane or I could have missed the flight.
Sadly, I did not see anyone else who was obviously opting out...I did see a few folks who triggered the WMTD and NOS getting patdowns.
So, my take away from my first opt-out:
If you are planning on opting out, get there extra early. The whole pat-down process took a total of about 45 minutes because of the delays.
Don't play golf the day before you fly
There are at least 2 TSO's who have enough common sense to recognize something as "silly" and "crap". Who knows, maybe they will have enough sense to quit this unconstitutional treatment of their fellow citizens.
There are not enough people opting out.
One final point: It appeared to be about 50% going though the NOS.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Synopsis: Long wait...defective equipment and 2 TSO's who knew it was "silly" for me to have to endure the resolution pat-down because of a faulty piece of equipment that was "crap".
Flew out of SAN Sunday morning and was chosen for the nude-o-scope. I opted out. There was a little bit of a loud announcement that they needed a Male assist. I was asked to stand by a chair to wait for the guy who would be doing the deed.
I pointed out that I could not see my stuff the TSO manning the NOS said "there are cameras monitoring the area" presumably to convince me I had nothing to worry about. I then turned to another TSO and with a bit more forceful voice said "I can't see my stuff" she directed me to stand close to the baggage screening machine so that I could keep an eye on my belongings.
There was a significant delay, at least 15 minutes before they could get a male TSO...this, in spite of the fact that I saw several walking back and forth. Eventually, the ID checker was the one who did the standard pat-down.
At one point, as I waited, the WTMD agent motioned me to come through, it was tempting to do it, but I told her I was waiting for the opt out pat-down. I was afraid it would lead to a terminal dump if I skipped on through. I wasn't about to create trouble for every other person simply trying to fly from point A to point B. After a few more minutes, she apologized for the delay. A bit later, another TSO apologized for the delay.
All of the TSO's I encountered were polite and professional excepting the TSO manning the NOS, who basically glared at me as I was waiting.
Finally, I am called over by the TSO who would do the pat down. He did not "touch my junk". But he did run his hand around my waistband and flat handed my bum.
He then did the swab thing and, bingo, I alarmed. He asked me if I was a golfer and I confirmed this. Of course, this led to the resolution patdown in the private room. Unfortunately, there was another wait for a 3 striper but the room was being used and we had to wait some more. The 3 striper was called away and when the room became available we had to wait again until a 2 striper came in to do the resolution grope.
He did not grab my junk but he did rub pretty firmly with a flat hand. He then went back out with a new swab and a couple of minutes later I was released.
Here is what I found particularly interesting. As I was getting the resolution grope, the swab machine went off a couple more times and the 1 striper said to the 2 striper, there must be something wrong with the machine because nearly everyone is alarming and the numbers were too high. The 2-striper was in agreement. And, it was clear they were a little embarrassed by it and were somewhat apologetic towards me.
While the 2-striper was out getting me "resolved", I told the 1-striper that it sounds like they had some equipment issues and he said, and this is a direct quote, "It is a piece of crap". I don't recall exactly what he said after that because I was blown away by such a candid admission.
I got to the gate about 2 minutes before boarding began. Fortunately, I was able to use the priority lane or I could have missed the flight.
Sadly, I did not see anyone else who was obviously opting out...I did see a few folks who triggered the WMTD and NOS getting patdowns.
So, my take away from my first opt-out:
If you are planning on opting out, get there extra early. The whole pat-down process took a total of about 45 minutes because of the delays.
Don't play golf the day before you fly
There are at least 2 TSO's who have enough common sense to recognize something as "silly" and "crap". Who knows, maybe they will have enough sense to quit this unconstitutional treatment of their fellow citizens.
There are not enough people opting out.
One final point: It appeared to be about 50% going though the NOS.
Thanks for letting me vent.
Someone mentioned retaliation...It crossed my mind as I was waiting for so long to get the initial patdown that retaliation might be in the equation because a lot of male tsos were wandering around the checkpoint.
Feb 8, 2011 | 1:20 pm
#26
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 65
But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.
As a woman who travels alone frequently, and who doesn't want the extra radiation of the NOS machines, I am really worried about what my rights are and what I can reasonably expect to do and have happen to me if I don't want to go to the private room. Does anyone know?
Feb 8, 2011 | 1:29 pm
#27
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
This one always sets off the swab for me.....
http://www.neutrogena.com/product/mo...by=bestSellers
It's GLYCERIN-RICH!! Don't you want to have ultrasmooth hands so you can play touch and tickle with your favorite TSO?
.
http://www.neutrogena.com/product/mo...by=bestSellers
It's GLYCERIN-RICH!! Don't you want to have ultrasmooth hands so you can play touch and tickle with your favorite TSO?
.
Feb 8, 2011 | 1:49 pm
#28
Join Date: Jan 2007
Programs: UA 1k
Posts: 508
Have we determined whether or not you HAVE to go for the private room resolution pat down if they say you need it? I started a thread on this awhile ago, but I don't think it was ever truly determined what the policy is and what legal rights you have. This article describing a woman's experience with the private screening is terrifying to me.
As a woman who travels alone frequently, and who doesn't want the extra radiation of the NOS machines, I am really worried about what my rights are and what I can reasonably expect to do and have happen to me if I don't want to go to the private room. Does anyone know?
As a woman who travels alone frequently, and who doesn't want the extra radiation of the NOS machines, I am really worried about what my rights are and what I can reasonably expect to do and have happen to me if I don't want to go to the private room. Does anyone know?
Beleive I've seen a secondary pat down in public on a fairly large lady who refused, watching each breast being lifted up and felt around is ridiculous.
But I'd still refuse to let others know whats taking place, and hopefully someone with a camera.
Nowadays I travel knowing I might not wind up on the plane; and not due to weather or malfunctions.
Feb 8, 2011 | 3:26 pm
#29
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 2,425
I had a very similar experience flying out of SAN on Saturday! When I told the TSA agent routing folks through the NOS that I was opting out, he actually told me that he was a microbiologist and knew all about radiation levels. I don't know if he was pulling my chain or not but he neither questioned, disputed, or reinforced my opting out. I stood by for about five minutes. Interestingly, toward the end of this time something started going wrong with the NOS and they had to start routing people through the WTMD. Oh, and also interesting, the lady behind me was drop dead gorgeous and wearing a low-cut top and they sent her through the WTMD for no apparent reason. This tells me the TSA is very sensitive to the charges that have been made about their use of the NOS.
Anyway, at a certain point the same TSA agent tells me if someone does not come soon in response to his repeated requests for a male assist, that he will do it himself so I can be on my way. I think that was BS because he clearly had a job to do routing folks into the NOS; he was clearly just trying to placate me and bide time.
Also during this time I mentioned that I could no longer see my belongings and he immediately had me move over to where I could see them - he did follow procedure here.
The initial pat-down was very professional. They kept my posessions with me the whole time, the agent told me in advance everything he was going to do, made sure I saw him change his gloves, and in fact did not go all the way up when he was patting up the insides of my legs. At the end I actually commended him for his professionalism. But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.
The pat-down in the room was very thorough. He *did* go all the way up, and all the way around my pelvis with quite a bit of pressure using the front of his hands. Although he did tell me everything he was going to do in advance and asked if I had any sensitive areas. It was invasive and annoying and clearly a violation of my fourth amendment rights, but other than insisting that the second screening be done in the private room they did follow their own procedures.
From now on I'll take the time to drive to SNA.
Anyway, at a certain point the same TSA agent tells me if someone does not come soon in response to his repeated requests for a male assist, that he will do it himself so I can be on my way. I think that was BS because he clearly had a job to do routing folks into the NOS; he was clearly just trying to placate me and bide time.
Also during this time I mentioned that I could no longer see my belongings and he immediately had me move over to where I could see them - he did follow procedure here.
The initial pat-down was very professional. They kept my posessions with me the whole time, the agent told me in advance everything he was going to do, made sure I saw him change his gloves, and in fact did not go all the way up when he was patting up the insides of my legs. At the end I actually commended him for his professionalism. But then the gloves alarmed and I was told I would have to go to a private room for a resolution pat down with another TSO. I protested and said they could do it in the open. They refused and insisted I go to the private room. I acquiesced at that point, not wanting to cause myself further grief.
The pat-down in the room was very thorough. He *did* go all the way up, and all the way around my pelvis with quite a bit of pressure using the front of his hands. Although he did tell me everything he was going to do in advance and asked if I had any sensitive areas. It was invasive and annoying and clearly a violation of my fourth amendment rights, but other than insisting that the second screening be done in the private room they did follow their own procedures.
From now on I'll take the time to drive to SNA.
Clearly this would not meet any existing SCOTUS test for reasonableness.
Disgusting that any of those people would assent to be a part of this.
Feb 8, 2011 | 4:35 pm
#30
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 331
Have we determined whether or not you HAVE to go for the private room resolution pat down if they say you need it? I started a thread on this awhile ago, but I don't think it was ever truly determined what the policy is and what legal rights you have. This article describing a woman's experience with the private screening is terrifying to me.
As a woman who travels alone frequently, and who doesn't want the extra radiation of the NOS machines, I am really worried about what my rights are and what I can reasonably expect to do and have happen to me if I don't want to go to the private room. Does anyone know?
As a woman who travels alone frequently, and who doesn't want the extra radiation of the NOS machines, I am really worried about what my rights are and what I can reasonably expect to do and have happen to me if I don't want to go to the private room. Does anyone know?