Grounds for Interrogration before TDC?
 

I was at MCO this morning, and noticed something that I have never seen. Two & Three stripe clerks were wandering through the lines of pax waiting for the TDC, questioning them about the trips... From what I heard, they were asking questions about destinations, who they were visiting, etc... Do we still have the ability to refuse these questions as we have not entered the checkpoint, or will we run into the same clerk that last night told me that we have no rights?

Perhaps this story will give you some insight on how TSA terrorizes people.

Yes.

Maybe.

SPOTS..................just tell them to shove off. Trying to be polite:)

Try to be polite? I don't know if that is possible :eek: :D ;)


Seemed like all of the pax they were "targeting" were happy to comply.. Some of them did seem a little confused when they were being questioned.

While there is no such thing as 100% I've said over & over let the dogs do their job. While I hate to agree with this idiot Pissy he most likely has a point on the dogs.

It only happened to me once; I had time to spare, so I had fun with it. He came up with his partner nearby but pretending not to listen. He asked me how I was and I said "fine". Then he asked me for my BP and I gave it to him. He asked why I was going to Chicago. I got fed up and replied: "See spot; see spot run; go spot; go spot go . . . bother another passenger". The look was priceless. I was given SSSS treatment and filed a complaint.

I wish I could have been there for that "incident" :D

It might have been too cold for them to go on patrol in the parking garage.

It was raining pretty hard.. Maybe they melt

It was not so much fun having a pat down, enjoying 15+ minutes of swabbing, enduring a lecture on jokes at the security checkpoint and having my information being recorded by the TDC upon instruction from the BDO that was pretending not to listen to our conversation. God bless the Passport Card (I didn't want to use the NEXUS card in this case).

I think it was worth it-- he was very put-off. VERY put-off. Looked like no one had ever stood up to him before and he was like a deer in headlights.

Here's my take on TSA interrogation of pax - it's what a lot of us on FT have suggested is needed, Israeli-style security tactics, interviews, bomb sniffing dogs & profiling. Unfortunately I don't think our current TSA are qualified or trained in effective interrogation, but I think it's a step in the right direction. Frankly I would rather answer their questions than submit to NoS or molestation.

Just answer with, "It's SSI." :D

I wouldn't mind answering questions, but how do we know that they're not asking these questions in order to find out the information they need to deliberately make us late or miss a flight altogether? You know, "Do you want to fly today?" I recall reading threads where posters felt they were being asked the time of their flight so the TSA would be able to use that to bully "problem" passengers who opted out.

They think we're all terrorists and don't trust us. We don't trust them. This is NOT the way things should be!

'Ich bin Ausländerin. Nichts verstehen'.

Another key difference is the entire nature of the conversation. In an Israeli-style security interview, I understand the nature of the interaction: the interviewer/interrogator openly views me as a threat, until such time as I demonstrate to him/her that I am not a threat. In a BDO interview, the BDO rarely identifies him/herself as such, and their "chummy" attitude towards me is nothing more than an act to get me to reveal something accidentally.

What is "TDC"?

Yeah, but a lot of us on FT have wanted Israeli-style security tactics INSTEAD of the scanners and "enhanced pat downs".

That the dogs will scare a terrorist into leaving? That's just dumb.

I know plenty of folks that are scared of large dogs as a result of some traumatic event involving dogs. To use the fear factor of dogs as a justification for intrusive detention and interrogation is outright wrong.

If I see a German Shepherd approaching me I am going to take evasive action due to severe allergies. If I had a bomb on me I'd just set it off taking out everyone in the area. Which part of "suicide bomber" does Pissy not understand? Of course, my understanding is that the dogs currently used wouldn't detect PETN anyway. So the only people running away would be allergy sufferers and people with large dog phobias.

Travel Document Checker (See the sticky "The Travel Safety/Security Forum Glossary" at the top of this forum).

Israeli-style security is not scalable in the US. The ineptitude of the current BDO's prove this. All of the flights in Israel do not equal the number of flights out of just ORD. Can you imagine going through this type of process for an hour-long flight?

Before the TDC, just say No.

BDO: How are you doing?

Pax: Fine.

BDO: Where are you going?

Pax: Hopefully through the screening checkpoint.

BDO: But what is your final destination today?

Pax: Hopefully Heaven, but I'm not sure if it will be today.

BDO: (Takes BP to mark SSSS) :eek:

It just might pay to print out an extra boarding pass, this way if the BDO marks your for SSSS and the TDC does not see them mark your boarding pass, then just take out the spare one for the TDC.

Mr. Elliott

Why does one need give spot your boarding pass in the first place? IIRC the only person who needs to see it is the TDC.

Again IIRC a TSO can ask for your boarding pass once in the secure zone.

sorry Rod
 

You’re standing alone minding your own business in a public queue. Suddenly strangers approach and strike up a conversation. Bored Type A’s with diarrhea of the mouth? Road warriors with too many drinks at the SC? Or worse, Undercover Al Kidda Terrorists trying to talk you into carrying their package onto your plane?

An ordinary day in the airport? No, you have entered the “DHS Zone.” Your only way out? “If you see something, say something.” Scream loudly while you still can for the nearest law enforcement officer to report these strangers who are “terrorizing” you. Or, keep silent, take your chances, and enter: “The TSA Zone. . . .”

I use one word answers.

Where are you going today?

Home.

Away.

Starbucks.

There.

Work.

BTW, the Israeli system would upscale to the our system except it requires intelligence and common sense and there are not that many Israeli soldiers that want to work over here to fill all of the positions needed.

Do NOT give your boarding pass to a BDO. Do NOT give anything to a BDO. They have no legal right to demand it or anything else. You must present your boarding pass to the TDC. That's fine. No one else.

I actually see the Israeli interviews differently. The appearance, at least, is that they do NOT view everyone as a threat. The interview is a screening tool to identify passengers who have a story that doesn't "check out." In a way, it's innocent until proven suspicious.

Part of the difference is in attitude. At Ben Gurion, the agents are young, chatty, and often beautiful women. They do not wear badges, and always emphasize that their interest is in preserving the safety of passengers, crew, and their belongings.

Intimidation is not part of the Israeli model. Although they do rely a bit on mystique (I think), their method is that a conversational and interactive approach is more fruitful.

I know that I'm biased because I always get a "number 1" sticker at Ben Gurion Airport. I might not like the system so much if I were of a different ethnic or religious origin.

Here, the SPOT program focuses on easy targets and badge waving. It is theatrical and comical.

Kudos to Ari for calling them out on it. I don't think I'd have the gall to do it.

Trusted Traveler IS possible here. When I went for my Global Entry interview, the agent was friendly, interesting, and witty. I dream of the day when I can have an interview like that (or using my existing GE status) and essentially have a "number 1" sticker when I pass through security here. I would absolutely be willing to pay a lot for that service. It makes conceptual sense, it's working for CBP, the infrastructure is in place, but the TSA remains stuck in its meaningless, expensive, humiliating diversions.

Wasting actual explosives-detecting dog+handler teams -- or even on show dogs -- to play a game with passengers so as to try to freak out some of the passengers is about as foolish a TSA approach as there could be. Whether or not it's a bigger waste of resources than the TSA wanted-and-approved interrogations of passengers, well, that's like seeking out the difference between the two halves of a donkey's rear-end -- sure it can be determined but it's more or less the same thing.

With TSA wanted-and-approved interrogations I get to test my linguistic skills. There's no requirement that I deal with them in English or any other language an interrogator claims to know on their resume. It makes for an interesting scene as they try to figure out what is going on and how to approach it -- especially as busting stereotypes is just my cup of tea.

Frankly, the TSA wants to be all things to all people -- so get ready to get it all whether you want it or not when justifying any given approach, domestic or foreign.

Give the TSA any additional string, and it will use it to rope in a lot more innocent passengers into all sorts of perverse approaches to security that provide but a dog and pony show -- domestic or foreign style show makes no difference, you've got the TSA.

The TSA, in its privacy impact assessment, asserts that a "BDO interview" conducted on you makes you a "suspicious person." The PIA further asserts that, because of the BDO interview which automatically make you a suspicious person, you are required to turn over your personal information. It is involuntary and you cannot refuse. Note: I'm just the messenger.

Having said this, if I were in a similar situation, as the saying goes, they would have to pry my ID from "my dead, cold fingers." And, a couple of SPOTNiks would have gone down with me.

I don't disagree; although after the BDO asked me if I had ID, to which I responded yes, and then asked to see it, to which I responded no, that was probably the straw that broke the camel's back leading to two BDO's tailing me, a subsequent detention by LEO's for 90 minutes and confiscation of my property for over 24 hours (and this was all landside).

Prior to the TDC, I think that is more problematic for the TSA.

Agreed - I just didn't say it.

I'd like to hear more about this. Did you post about it? If not, would you? Thanks.

This is the thread detailing the incident:

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trave...ographing.html

Epic thread. ^

+1

I just reread the entire report, and it's amazing what this country has turned into :mad:

I am returning the the Mother Ship (Israel) for a while, and I am connecting through Central and West Africa for business. If I said this at Ben Gurion, security guy wouldn't really care: he's observing how I act, not so much what I say. However, if they ever try to give me a hard time, I'll just start talking about Rambam and watch his eyes glaze over LOL

If I say this to a smurf at US airport, they think perhaps they can "bust" me. You see all the arrests TSA seeks to justify its existence, no?

The problem is, the TSA can't be trusted -- at all. In the US, you NEVER share info with police -- ever. Police and agents of gov are NEVER there to help you... it's just SOP. I have some American family in police, and trust me, they don't care!!! :)

I applaud the TSA for TRYING this method, but they need to:
1) establish that the info can't be used for criminal .... -- at all!
2) hire israelis: tons of israelis would LOVE this job. Getting paid to hassle Americans... I think that's called heaven :)
3) Accept the fact they'll have to pay more than 45k/yr to get someone reasonably capable for this job... that's the hard-bit.

Terrorism is a real threat, and I am sure there are guys frustrated with just stabbing American tourists in Jerusalem and want to take out a whole PLANE of us... I am beginning to think the TSA will figure it out, but it'll be painful process.

Till then, I fly in/out Canada :)

THAT'S EXACTLY THE PROBLEM with the Americans doing this: when someone gets INDIGNANT, TRULY INDIGNANT, it PROVES they're innocent.

El Al didn't want my fiance to take her computer once with her on a trip (this was a while ago -- forgot why). She told them, "I'm not flying without my lap-top." They let her go w/o a hassle. Another time, she got asked about some Jewish stuff, and she lost her temper and told them to get stuffed.

Again, they let her go on her way, straight-away.

In both cases, the TSA wouldn't budge, and they'd react as a stupid bureaucracy, rather than an intellgience(LOL!) agency of sorts.

And that would be a bad thing because.... ?

Note to Pistole: You're not a cop anymore, the primary purpose of the TSA is not to catch terrorists. Or criminals or deadbeat dads or underage college kids etc., etc.

Here's some suggestions for responding to behavior detection screeners.

Another idea is to ignore their questions and respond with a sales pitch for pre-need funeral insurance or a great business opportunity called Amway. :D

My response to strangers who probe me on a personal level is "I'm sorry, do we know one another?" Not that I'm sorry, and not that I care if we know one another -- it's just more polite than "Get lost."

That is good advice. I never talk to strangers. Never know their motives.
Another thing to do is have your MP3 player earphones in, and just ignore anyone talking to you. To add to the effect, be lip syncing the song and slightly dancing while standing in line.

If they touch you in any way, could assault charges be brought against them?

"Are you ready to accept Jesus Christ as your personal saviour?"

That might get them to run...I know I head for the hills when I hear it. :D