Reporter looking for tips on getting through security with dignity intact
Dec 7, 2010 | 4:33 am
#31
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 629
While I do generally agree that it is better to be male passing through the security theatre there are some exceptions.
I could be wrong about this but I think males are more disgusted by same sex sexual contact than are women. Yes, this is is a generalization and not always true, but I think men are simply way more homophobic. There is a stronger stigma against same sex genital contact. I think the same sex aspect may be more traumatizing for us than for women. Hell, the TSA even seems to think women would actually prefer being touched by a same sex screener. I think the vast majority of men would prefer a woman to be handling our delicate packages.
During the sexual patdowns men's junk is more "out there" and can be played with and abused more. Women don't have to worry about having their testicles squeezed for instance. And a karate chop sliding motion to the testicles while patting down the legs hurts a lot more than a karate chop to the vulva (or even to the breasts).
Based on the limited x-ray images that have been released the images of the male seems to be more graphic, probably due to the genitals hanging out there more. In the images you can even see exactly which way it is hanging. Also men aren't used to having their dick size judged by strangers. Women are used to this with their breasts, but, unless we are wearing a speedo, we men are shielded from such judgments. With the NoS all of a sudden our equipment is out there to be judged by an expert team of panelists in the peep room. I think differences in women's labias are not quite so obvious in the images. And the differences are more subtle anyway.
I could be wrong about this but I think males are more disgusted by same sex sexual contact than are women. Yes, this is is a generalization and not always true, but I think men are simply way more homophobic. There is a stronger stigma against same sex genital contact. I think the same sex aspect may be more traumatizing for us than for women. Hell, the TSA even seems to think women would actually prefer being touched by a same sex screener. I think the vast majority of men would prefer a woman to be handling our delicate packages.
During the sexual patdowns men's junk is more "out there" and can be played with and abused more. Women don't have to worry about having their testicles squeezed for instance. And a karate chop sliding motion to the testicles while patting down the legs hurts a lot more than a karate chop to the vulva (or even to the breasts).
Based on the limited x-ray images that have been released the images of the male seems to be more graphic, probably due to the genitals hanging out there more. In the images you can even see exactly which way it is hanging. Also men aren't used to having their dick size judged by strangers. Women are used to this with their breasts, but, unless we are wearing a speedo, we men are shielded from such judgments. With the NoS all of a sudden our equipment is out there to be judged by an expert team of panelists in the peep room. I think differences in women's labias are not quite so obvious in the images. And the differences are more subtle anyway.
Dec 7, 2010 | 5:13 am
#32
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
Andy: http://saizai.com/tsa_rights.pdf
Fully compiled and ready to distribute. Feel free to quote as much as you want so long as you cite it to that URL.
Call me if you want an interview; number's on my website.
Fully compiled and ready to distribute. Feel free to quote as much as you want so long as you cite it to that URL.
Call me if you want an interview; number's on my website.
Dec 7, 2010 | 8:04 am
#33
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: DTW
Programs: DL 0.22 MM, AA 0.34 MM, PC Plat Amb, Hertz #1 GC 5*
Posts: 7,511
What's the measurement of dignity, in the scope of this specific thread?
Once we know that, we can respond how, if possible, to keep it.
The OP is coming to us with a word, without a measurement. The author, and every member on this forum, might have a different definition of dignity.
Once we know that, we can respond how, if possible, to keep it.
The OP is coming to us with a word, without a measurement. The author, and every member on this forum, might have a different definition of dignity.
Dec 7, 2010 | 8:15 am
#34
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Salish Sea
Programs: DL,AC,HH,PC
Posts: 8,972
And be prepared to miss your flight; that's the screeners' big stick - take it away.
Dec 7, 2010 | 9:41 am
#35
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
OP, I suspect that your target audience is the male frequent flyer.
The voices which really are not being heard, and which are treated with even less dignity, are those with medical issues.
While I applaud you for doing such a piece, may I encourage you and your colleagues look at how those with medical issues are being completely overlooked by the media and the general public in regards to this topic?
The voices which really are not being heard, and which are treated with even less dignity, are those with medical issues.
While I applaud you for doing such a piece, may I encourage you and your colleagues look at how those with medical issues are being completely overlooked by the media and the general public in regards to this topic?
Dec 7, 2010 | 10:35 am
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Winter Garden, FL
Programs: Delta DM-3MM United Gold-MM Marriott Lifetime Titanium Hertz President's Circle
Posts: 13,498
As others have said, publications with the influence of Forbes should be protesting the inane and ineffective practices of the TSA monstrosity, not trying to figure out ways to deal with the monster. At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, this sort of behavior reminds me of the Jews during the 1930s trying to appease the Nazis -- but, of course, the only way for Jews to appease the Nazis was to die. I see no way any more to "work with" the TSA. They have crossed one line after another and now must be abolished. Simple as that.
Bruce
Bruce
Dec 7, 2010 | 11:07 am
#37
Join Date: Mar 2004
Programs: Marriott Silver, Hilton Gold, Delta Silver, dabbling in USAirways
Posts: 66
Instead, as a technology and security reporter, why not follow the money trail of Rapiscan and see who stands to gain from having these scanners installed? Why not examine the technology behind the backscatter vs. MMW, and ask why the TSA would put in a machine with radiation when one without is available? Why not look at the way AMS does their security, and ask why the TSA chose what it chose, especially when other countries have already looked at and discarded the technology the TSA is so vocally embracing?
There's a journalism prize in there somewhere for you, Andy, if you ask the tough questions and bring this issue to national attention. But it's not in writing articles on how your basic American citizen can avoid being sexually harassed and assaulted by TSA regulations and the TSOs that carry them out at their own "discretion". And that's what it is, even if you prefer to call it "getting through with the least embarrassment and inconvenience."
There's a journalism prize in there somewhere for you, Andy, if you ask the tough questions and bring this issue to national attention. But it's not in writing articles on how your basic American citizen can avoid being sexually harassed and assaulted by TSA regulations and the TSOs that carry them out at their own "discretion". And that's what it is, even if you prefer to call it "getting through with the least embarrassment and inconvenience."
Dec 7, 2010 | 11:29 am
#38
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Colorado
Programs: Frontier EarlyReturns
Posts: 82
Kudos to Forbes magazine by the way!
Dec 7, 2010 | 12:39 pm
#39
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Denton County, TX
Programs: AA Executive Platinum, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 737
Although I do not personally read Forbes magazine, my assumption is that the average demographic is a well-heeled white male age 40+. I could be wrong but that is the impression I get.
This is the same demographic that is likely doing the majority of travel in the US (albeit a small percentage of that will be General Aviation).
2+2 = Forbes better be real careful how this article is worded. They may get away with dismissing the feeble and the disabled, but if they imply that the frequent-flyer businessman out there is OK with this they may be in for a world of hurt.
This is the same demographic that is likely doing the majority of travel in the US (albeit a small percentage of that will be General Aviation).
2+2 = Forbes better be real careful how this article is worded. They may get away with dismissing the feeble and the disabled, but if they imply that the frequent-flyer businessman out there is OK with this they may be in for a world of hurt.
Dec 13, 2010 | 6:50 pm
#40
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 962
FYI all, this is legit. Got a call from Andy earlier.
Also, this is his work: http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...l-not-so-fast/
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...logs-comments/
Very positive stuff, worth supporting.
Also, this is his work: http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenberg/
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...l-not-so-fast/
http://blogs.forbes.com/andygreenber...logs-comments/
Very positive stuff, worth supporting.
Dec 14, 2010 | 9:54 pm
#42
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: somewhere in F, hopefully
Posts: 670
While I do generally agree that it is better to be male passing through the security theatre there are some exceptions.
I could be wrong about this but I think males are more disgusted by same sex sexual contact than are women. Yes, this is is a generalization and not always true, but I think men are simply way more homophobic. There is a stronger stigma against same sex genital contact. I think the same sex aspect may be more traumatizing for us than for women. Hell, the TSA even seems to think women would actually prefer being touched by a same sex screener. I think the vast majority of men would prefer a woman to be handling our delicate packages.
During the sexual patdowns men's junk is more "out there" and can be played with and abused more. Women don't have to worry about having their testicles squeezed for instance. And a karate chop sliding motion to the testicles while patting down the legs hurts a lot more than a karate chop to the vulva (or even to the breasts).
Based on the limited x-ray images that have been released the images of the male seems to be more graphic, probably due to the genitals hanging out there more. In the images you can even see exactly which way it is hanging. Also men aren't used to having their dick size judged by strangers. Women are used to this with their breasts, but, unless we are wearing a speedo, we men are shielded from such judgments. With the NoS all of a sudden our equipment is out there to be judged by an expert team of panelists in the peep room. I think differences in women's labias are not quite so obvious in the images. And the differences are more subtle anyway.
I could be wrong about this but I think males are more disgusted by same sex sexual contact than are women. Yes, this is is a generalization and not always true, but I think men are simply way more homophobic. There is a stronger stigma against same sex genital contact. I think the same sex aspect may be more traumatizing for us than for women. Hell, the TSA even seems to think women would actually prefer being touched by a same sex screener. I think the vast majority of men would prefer a woman to be handling our delicate packages.
During the sexual patdowns men's junk is more "out there" and can be played with and abused more. Women don't have to worry about having their testicles squeezed for instance. And a karate chop sliding motion to the testicles while patting down the legs hurts a lot more than a karate chop to the vulva (or even to the breasts).
Based on the limited x-ray images that have been released the images of the male seems to be more graphic, probably due to the genitals hanging out there more. In the images you can even see exactly which way it is hanging. Also men aren't used to having their dick size judged by strangers. Women are used to this with their breasts, but, unless we are wearing a speedo, we men are shielded from such judgments. With the NoS all of a sudden our equipment is out there to be judged by an expert team of panelists in the peep room. I think differences in women's labias are not quite so obvious in the images. And the differences are more subtle anyway.
And I would actually prefer Mark Wahlberg to perform my assault, thank you very much.
In case your not familiar with female anatomy, our "junk" is "out there" too. And some screeners see no problem with doing the slide right up our fronts. I think that's worse than cupping your balls. I would equate it with direct manipulative contact with the other portion of your "junk", which is something you guys are not getting, AFAIK.
Dec 15, 2010 | 4:17 am
#43
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: CMH
Programs: Delta Gold Medallion, United
Posts: 433
Dec 15, 2010 | 10:12 am
#45
Join Date: Oct 2010
Programs: AA ex-EXP (buh-bye!), HH Gold, SPG Gold, UM Go Blue
Posts: 543
Welcome, Andy, and thank you for reaching out to someone other than the TSA for holiday tips for travelers. You might want to compare exactly what TSA states (and what they will probably tell you when you call them) versus the kinds of experiences people are reporting here.
TSA: How to Get Through the Line Faster
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...xperience.shtm
For example, the video for the "female business traveler" only shows her walking up to a baggage x-ray machine and putting her stuff in a 1 quart bag. The video for the "male business traveler" shows him with the quart size bag, as well as removing his laptop and shoes. Why they don't show the female removing her shoes and laptop is beyond me. In any case, there are no videos of the new pat-down process and very little information that would actually be helpful for people who really want to get the process over with quickly.
Note that the TSA site for travelers does not even mention the presence of "AIT" scanners in any way that is easy for passengers to locate:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/index.shtm
In any case, you have a wider audience. I would emphasize that people have the right to opt out of any full body scans, and that they have the right to summon a witness for their pat-downs. They should plan ahead for how they will opt-out, respond to subsequent requests or statements to go through the machine anyway, keep their stuff in sight at all times, and request a witness if they do have a pat-down. TSA seems to capitalize on making everything happen so quickly that people don't have time to think about saying no, and in the rush of holiday travel it will probably be worse.
TSA: How to Get Through the Line Faster
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtrav...xperience.shtm
For example, the video for the "female business traveler" only shows her walking up to a baggage x-ray machine and putting her stuff in a 1 quart bag. The video for the "male business traveler" shows him with the quart size bag, as well as removing his laptop and shoes. Why they don't show the female removing her shoes and laptop is beyond me. In any case, there are no videos of the new pat-down process and very little information that would actually be helpful for people who really want to get the process over with quickly.
Note that the TSA site for travelers does not even mention the presence of "AIT" scanners in any way that is easy for passengers to locate:
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/index.shtm
In any case, you have a wider audience. I would emphasize that people have the right to opt out of any full body scans, and that they have the right to summon a witness for their pat-downs. They should plan ahead for how they will opt-out, respond to subsequent requests or statements to go through the machine anyway, keep their stuff in sight at all times, and request a witness if they do have a pat-down. TSA seems to capitalize on making everything happen so quickly that people don't have time to think about saying no, and in the rush of holiday travel it will probably be worse.