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-   -   Reporter looking for tips on getting through security with dignity intact (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/practical-travel-safety-security-issues/1156912-reporter-looking-tips-getting-through-security-dignity-intact.html)

youreadyfreddie Dec 6, 2010 5:25 pm

Welcome to FT, Andy. It seems to be a roll of the dice these days. In my experience, even polite opt outs are met with questions and offers to let the traveler complete a "feedback card" that requests your name and email address--while that information is "optional", doesn't inspire confidence that one won't end up on a "list" of some sort.

For Thanksgiving travel out of IAD prior to the holiday, the lane marked for families was NOT routed through the NOS, the other lane, ostensibly for experienced travelers and those who need less time to prepare their possessions to go through the x-ray, was routing all travelers through the NOS.

After Thanksgiving, at SAN, it appeared that all travelers were routed through the NOS, and requests for opt outs were met with a bit of a puzzled reaction as to why one would want to opt out, which was a bit more subtle than the puzzled reaction when I opted out the month before.

Good luck with your article. This may be a bit of a tangent, but regarding passenger dignity, it would be interesting to know what the manufacturers of products designed to protect one's dignity and privacy (ostomy products, adult incontinence products, feminine protection products, etc.), which can be seen by the scanners, and felt during pat downs have to say about how their customers are being treated. Customer dignity and privacy are key parts of their marketing strategies.


Originally Posted by Darkumbra (Post 15394776)
Andy,

When I first read your request, I immediately responded with a sarcastic/snarky post not towards you - but to the whole situation. I don't regret it because it was an honest gut response to your request.

As I sit here, I'm puzzling over why your query prompted my gut response. The answer is relatively simple, why should anyone have to take ANY additional steps to protect their dignity from a government employee? How did we get to this time and place where we have plan our behavior, clothing, demeanor so that we can avoid indignity?

The real story is not 'what must we do to protect our dignity?', the story is 'why is the dignity of anyone under threat?
'

Very well stated, Darkumbra.

Pluma Dec 6, 2010 5:50 pm


Originally Posted by Darkumbra (Post 15394776)
Andy,

How did we get to this time and place where we have plan our behavior, clothing, demeanor so that we can avoid indignity?

<sarcasm> 9/11 changed everything </sarcasm>

gojirasan Dec 6, 2010 7:02 pm


Originally Posted by ocschwar
Tell them you're a Forbes reporter and you're writing a story about this

+1.

However, it sounds like you are researching an article about how the average person can get through without being violated. I think whoever gave you this assignment just doesn't understand what is going on. The premise that the indignity/violation/assault can be avoided through some special technique is simply wrong. At least if you want to fly that day.

All you can do is the obvious. Don't actually get in line for the porn-scanner voluntarily. There is usually at least one metal detector line at the checkpoint. If you are pulled from that line and asked to go through the porn-scanner, the TSA allows you to opt-out. If you opt-out they will ask you to either wait or to walk through the porn-scanner without stopping.

Note that choosing to go through the nude-scanner does not eliminate the possibility of also getting groped. That seems to be a common misconception. There are many reasons why seeing through your clothes is not sufficient for them. Things like skin folds of any kind or a wallet or money belt or even cash or moving a bit too much in the scanner (creates blur) or just an old fashioned false positive on the part of the less than perfect machine or the TSO manning the machine. In actual practice such post-scanner gropes seem to happen quite frequently.

Once you have opted out and are on the other side of the scanners they will give you the prison entry opt-out frisk which usually includes sliding their fingers over every inch of your body with a pair of nitrile gloves that they only change on request. The actual procedure is top secret, but traveler reports indicate that it involves sliding their hands (not the back of their hands) up both sides of each leg. until they touch your genitals. At this point, some of the TSOs will also rub (slide their fingers across with pressure) your genitals with their fingers or for males even cup your balls looking for explosives taped to them or whatever. They will also slide the side of their hand into the cleft of your buttocks making contact with the anus as they slide across. They will also slide their fingers down your pants between your underwear and your skin sliding all the way around from your pubic area at the front to your buttocks in the back. In some cases they will also pull out the front of your pants and underwear and peak inside for a visual inspection. Of course females will also get a thorough breast exam.

The only way to get through without being scoped or groped is to not be selected for the rapescanner, which just comes down to luck or maybe what you look like. If you look "suspicious" (having dark skin or a beard for instance) or are an attractive female you will probably be selected.

For a "domestic extremist" or radical like myself there is virtually no risk of having to be scoped or groped. Why? Because I will opt out of both the scope and the grope every time and will resist with force if necessary. Unfortunately that involves risk of a $10,000 administrative fine from the TSA and/or being arrested by the airport police on trumped up charges in support of their TSA colleagues.

My own personal strategy for an airport or checkpoint with the porn-scanners is as follows:

1. Get in the metal detector line.

2. Keep my stuff with me until there is only one person in front of me. Then place my carry-on on the belt as far back as possible. That is, behind other people's grey bins. So that ideally I would be walking through the detector before my stuff goes through the x-ray machine. If a screener disallows this then at least time it so that my stuff goes through the x-ray machine at exactly the same time that I do. Once my carry-on goes through the x-ray machine the TSA has a great deal more leverage to detain me at the checkpoint.

3. If selected for the the porn-scanner grab my stuff from the belt, and inform the TSO selecting me that I am opting out of both the scanner and the patdown. They will no doubt inform me that I cannot opt out of the patdown. I will stand my ground and request a police officer.

When the police officer arrives. I will explain that I neither wish to be seen naked nor to have my genitals stroked by another man. That I would prefer not to fly if it requires being violated. I will then ask the officer if I am free to leave the airport. If he says no. I will ask "Am I being detained?". If he says yes, then I will say "Am I being arrested?" If he says no to either of these I will ask "Am I free to go?". Otherwise I will not give any further information to the police officer except for me name. If he gives my name to the TSA I will request his name and badge number. The nice thing about this strategy is that if I am being detained at least it is by an actual law enforcement officer. There are clear rules and precedents about arrests and detainments by LEOs. Not so about TSOs.

If there doesn't seem to be a police officer near the checkpoint there is a slight variation to the above which might save some time and the possibility of getting on a DHS/TSA suspicious person watch list, albeit with a greater chance of being arrested. That would be to simply walk away from the checkpoint with my carry-on as soon as I have informed the TSO that I choose to opt out of both the scanner and the grope. The TSO has no power to physically detain me. They will have to call the airport police with my description and hope that the LEO can catch me before I exit the airport. If the LEO does catch up to me in time then I will surrender to him and go back to the "Am I being detained, Am I under arrest, Am I free to go" chant.

For a regional airport that doesn't yet have the scanners the only difference is that I would be opting out of a grope if "randomly" selected for secondary inspection. Of course if you do make it through the metal detector at an airport with scanners you can still be selected for a "random" secondary inspection.

This secondary inspection grope opt-out is actually worse because the law seems to draw a line after you walk through the metal detector. A ninth circuit court (although I don't live in that district) ruled that once you pass through the metal detector you have consented to a search and that that consent cannot be withdrawn. Whether such a search can include touching your genitals would be up to a court to decide I think. Note this same problem would probably also apply to a post-scanner grope. The scanner would no doubt be seen as the equivalent of a metal detector.

motorguy Dec 6, 2010 7:17 pm


Originally Posted by AndyGreenberg (Post 15394426)
Hello all. I'm a technology and security reporter with Forbes, working on a kind of "how-to" story that collects tips for fliers regarding airport security ahead of the holidays. I'm hoping to hear any of your ideas for how fliers can get through airport checkpoints with the least embarrassment or inconvenience, even if they wish to opt out of the full body scans.

I'd appreciate any tricks or suggestions you all have picked up in your travels. Please feel free to DM me or email me at agreenberg (at) forbes.com.

Thanks for your help and look forward to seeing your ideas,

Andy Greenberg
Technology Staff Writer
Forbes Magazine and Forbes.com

A possible thing to do is to ask the TSA people if they have thought about possible criminal charges about what they are doing. After all, the searches they are engaged in are quite clear violations of the fourth amendment to the United States Constitution, and violations of civil rights, under the color of police powers, are felonies under 18USC section 242. Do they know that they are in danger of doing serious time in the slammer?


Originally Posted by gojirasan (Post 15395354)
+1.

However, it sounds like you are researching an article about how the average person can get through without being violated. I think whoever gave you this assignment just doesn't understand what is going on. The premise that the indignity/violation/assault can be avoided through some special technique is simply wrong. At least if you want to fly that day.

All you can do is the obvious. Don't actually get in line for the porn-scanner voluntarily. There is usually at least one metal detector line at the checkpoint. If you are pulled from that line and asked to go through the porn-scanner, the TSA allows you to opt-out. If you opt-out they will ask you to either wait or to walk through the porn-scanner without stopping.

Note that choosing to go through the nude-scanner does not eliminate the possibility of also getting groped. That seems to be a common misconception. There are many reasons why seeing through your clothes is not sufficient for them. Things like skin folds of any kind or a wallet or money belt or even cash or moving a bit too much in the scanner (creates blur) or just an old fashioned false positive on the part of the less than perfect machine or the TSO manning the machine. In actual practice such post-scanner gropes seem to happen quite frequently.

Once you have opted out and are on the other side of the scanners they will give you the prison entry opt-out frisk which usually includes sliding their fingers over every inch of your body with a pair of nitrile gloves that they only change on request. The actual procedure is top secret, but traveler reports indicate that it involves sliding their hands (not the back of their hands) up both sides of each leg. until they touch your genitals. At this point, some of the TSOs will also rub (slide their fingers across with pressure) your genitals with their fingers or for males even cup your balls looking for explosives taped to them or whatever. They will also slide the side of their hand into the cleft of your buttocks making contact with the anus as they slide across. They will also slide their fingers down your pants between your underwear and your skin sliding all the way around from your pubic area at the front to your buttocks in the back. In some cases they will also pull out the front of your pants and underwear and peak inside for a visual inspection. Of course females will also get a thorough breast exam.

The only way to get through without being scoped or groped is to not be selected for the rapescanner, which just comes down to luck or maybe what you look like. If you look "suspicious" (having dark skin or a beard for instance) or are an attractive female you will probably be selected.

For a "domestic extremist" or radical like myself there is virtually no risk of having to be scoped or groped. Why? Because I will opt out of both the scope and the grope every time and will resist with force if necessary. Unfortunately that involves risk of a $10,000 administrative fine from the TSA and/or being arrested by the airport police on trumped up charges in support of their TSA colleagues.

My own personal strategy for an airport or checkpoint with the porn-scanners is as follows:

1. Get in the metal detector line.

2. Keep my stuff with me until there is only one person in front of me. Then place my carry-on on the belt as far back as possible. That is, behind other people's grey bins. So that ideally I would be walking through the detector before my stuff goes through the x-ray machine. If a screener disallows this then at least time it so that my stuff goes through the x-ray machine at exactly the same time that I do. Once my carry-on goes through the x-ray machine the TSA has a great deal more leverage to detain me at the checkpoint.

3. If selected for the the porn-scanner grab my stuff from the belt, and inform the TSO selecting me that I am opting out of both the scanner and the patdown. They will no doubt inform me that I cannot opt out of the patdown. I will stand my ground and request a police officer.

When the police officer arrives. I will explain that I neither wish to be seen naked nor to have my genitals stroked by another man. That I would prefer not to fly if it requires being violated. I will then ask the officer if I am free to leave the airport. If he says no. I will ask "Am I being detained?". If he says yes, then I will say "Am I being arrested?" If he says no to either of these I will ask "Am I free to go?". Otherwise I will not give any further information to the police officer except for me name. If he gives my name to the TSA I will request his name and badge number. The nice thing about this strategy is that if I am being detained at least it is by an actual law enforcement officer. There are clear rules and precedents about arrests and detainments by LEOs. Not so about TSOs.

If there doesn't seem to be a police officer near the checkpoint there is a slight variation to the above which might save some time and the possibility of getting on a DHS/TSA suspicious person watch list, albeit with a greater chance of being arrested. That would be to simply walk away from the checkpoint with my carry-on as soon as I have informed the TSO that I choose to opt out of both the scanner and the grope. The TSO has no power to physically detain me. They will have to call the airport police with my description and hope that the LEO can catch me before I exit the airport. If the LEO does catch up to me in time then I will surrender to him and go back to the "Am I being detained, Am I under arrest, Am I free to go" chant.

For a regional airport that doesn't yet have the scanners the only difference is that I would be opting out of a grope if "randomly" selected for secondary inspection. Of course if you do make it through the metal detector at an airport with scanners you can still be selected for a "random" secondary inspection.

This secondary inspection grope opt-out is actually worse because the law seems to draw a line after you walk through the metal detector. A ninth circuit court (although I don't live in that district) ruled that once you pass through the metal detector you have consented to a search and that that consent cannot be withdrawn. Whether such a search can include touching your genitals would be up to a court to decide I think. Note this same problem would probably also apply to a post-scanner grope. The scanner would no doubt be seen as the equivalent of a metal detector.

The trouble with this is that you are, after all, at the airport with the intention of going somewhere on an airplane, right?

greentips Dec 6, 2010 7:30 pm

The best way to get through security with your dignity intact is to live on the northern border, drive to the nearest air carrier airport in Canada, buy a ticket to a second Canadian destination nearest your destination, rent a car and drive to your destination from there. Welcome to FT.

Shorty Dec 6, 2010 7:34 pm


Originally Posted by gojirasan (Post 15395354)
However, it sounds like you are researching an article about how the average person can get through without being violated. I think whoever gave you this assignment just doesn't understand what is going on. The premise that the indignity/violation/assault can be avoided through some special technique is simply wrong. At least if you want to fly that day.

+1. Way to go, for a national magazine of Forbes stature, to do an article that has already assumed the roll-over position for TSA policies. Instead, as a technology and security reporter, why not follow the money trail of Rapiscan and see who stands to gain from having these scanners installed? Why not examine the technology behind the backscatter vs. MMW, and ask why the TSA would put in a machine with radiation when one without is available? Why not look at the way AMS does their security, and ask why the TSA chose what it chose, especially when other countries have already looked at and discarded the technology the TSA is so vocally embracing?

There's a journalism prize in there somewhere for you, Andy, if you ask the tough questions and bring this issue to national attention. But it's not in writing articles on how your basic American citizen can avoid being sexually harassed and assaulted by TSA regulations and the TSOs that carry them out at their own "discretion". And that's what it is, even if you prefer to call it "getting through with the least embarrassment and inconvenience."

gojirasan Dec 6, 2010 7:35 pm


Originally Posted by motorguy (Post 15395474)
The trouble with this is that you are, after all, at the airport with the intention of going somewhere on an airplane, right?

Yes. But only if I am able to do so without being porn-scanned or sexually molested by another male. As you know this is quite possible. Not everyone is selected for the porn-scanner and not everyone is selected for a secondary inspection. If I make it through the gauntlet of porn-scan selection and secondary inspection then I am perfectly happy to fly instead of driving or taking a boat. I am neither female nor attractive nor dark skinned (I am pasty white), and if I have a beard I always shave it before flying. It's a roll of the dice. If/when they do phase out the WTMDs completely or put them in series with the porn-scanners instead of in parallel then I wouldn't even bother to show up at the airport. But as long as they have them running there is a chance to make it through. Didn't a TSO here say that he guessed the chance of being selected was only something like 1 in 5? Of course even if true that could change at any time.

PVDtoDEL Dec 6, 2010 7:38 pm


Originally Posted by greentips (Post 15395549)
The best way to get through security with your dignity intact is to live on the northern border, drive to the nearest air carrier airport in Canada, buy a ticket to a second Canadian destination nearest your destination, rent a car and drive to your destination from there. Welcome to FT.

Substitute Mexico at your leisure, although that is more likely to be an unpleasant drive.
You can also attempt to take amtrak from Montreal to NYC, DC, etc.

myadvice Dec 6, 2010 7:49 pm


Originally Posted by Shorty (Post 15395567)
Instead, as a technology and security reporter, why not follow the money trail of Rapiscan and see who stands to gain from having these scanners installed?

Here is the first step: OSI/Rapiscan campaign contributions. There are a lot more donations out there if one searches the campaign finance database for individual donations of those who contributed to the OSI PAC.

KansasMike Dec 6, 2010 7:53 pm

Andy,

I am a long-time Forbes subscriber and am on Steve's Christmas card list. I believe Steve would be editorializing -- strongly -- against this ratcheting up by the TSA if he had experienced it.

That said, let me try to answer your question: There is no way to get through today's security with your dignity intact.

I was at the Charlotte Airport Thursday and got into the non-nude machine line. I went through the metal detector without issue, my belongings had no apparent problem, yet I was "randomly selected" for the grope search. The person being grope searched in front of me was a 60ish woman and obviously no threat to anyone. The experience is humiliating and demeaning and completely unnecessary for security.

Here is some background info: http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspo...ust-right.html and http://meteorologicalmusings.blogspo...our-phony.html

Hope this is helpful.

Mike

chollie Dec 6, 2010 8:14 pm


Originally Posted by AndyGreenberg (Post 15394426)
Hello all. I'm a technology and security reporter with Forbes, working on a kind of "how-to" story that collects tips for fliers regarding airport security ahead of the holidays. I'm hoping to hear any of your ideas for how fliers can get through airport checkpoints with the least embarrassment or inconvenience, even if they wish to opt out of the full body scans.

I'd appreciate any tricks or suggestions you all have picked up in your travels. Please feel free to DM me or email me at agreenberg (at) forbes.com.

Thanks for your help and look forward to seeing your ideas,

Andy Greenberg
Technology Staff Writer
Forbes Magazine and Forbes.com

It would be great if you were able to at least nod in the direction of the folks who are now subjected to an invasive patdown every time they fly. I am talking about folks who are in wheelchairs or mobility/balance challenged. These folks couldn't go through the WTMD before. Instead, they got a wanding/light back of hand patdown. Now they get the invasive frisk every time they go through a checkpoint. It is possible, just possible, that some of your readers fall in this category or know someone who does. There is no alternative available to them, they will get an invasive patdown every time they fly.

runarut Dec 6, 2010 8:57 pm

Maintaining Dignity
 
Coming up with simple heuristics that would work for just about anyone wanting to maintain their dignity while going through airport security just doesn't seem possible.

I do pretty well getting through security. I think this is less about my social engineering ability and more about being male, over 50 and serious about business.

I've observed that females over 50 and the retired get randomly selected out of proportion to their numbers. If you fit into these categories, nothing you can do will maintain your dignity unless you do as my wife does. When told that she has been "randomly selected," she tells the TSA agent that there wasn't anything random about it. She goes on to ask how random means only women over 50. Generally, the agents back down and move on to the next over 50 female.

My advice is to accept that there is no dignity going through security. Have very low expectations. Be flexible. Keep your eyes on your stuff. Don't let the man get you down. Understand that in security, the rules are there are no rules.

When I think about all of the really stupid things that have happened to me in security, I think about the truly horrid things that have happened to other people. Knowing how bad it could be helps me maintain some perspective.

My advice? Follow another poster's suggestion to get out there and fly.

VH-RMD Dec 6, 2010 9:32 pm


Originally Posted by AndyGreenberg (Post 15394426)
Hello all. I'm a technology and security reporter with Forbes, working on a kind of "how-to" story that collects tips for fliers regarding airport security ahead of the holidays. I'm hoping to hear any of your ideas for how fliers can get through airport checkpoints with the least embarrassment or inconvenience, even if they wish to opt out of the full body scans.

I'd appreciate any tricks or suggestions you all have picked up in your travels. Please feel free to DM me or email me at agreenberg (at) forbes.com.

Thanks for your help and look forward to seeing your ideas,

Andy Greenberg
Technology Staff Writer
Forbes Magazine and Forbes.com

come down to Australia and pass through our security - see how it is done, and because you are new here (welcome BTW) and have never heard me say it before - and strangely, despite not having the security theatre of the US, but still having similar threats, our planes don't fall out of the sky...

sheneh Dec 6, 2010 9:41 pm


Originally Posted by runarut (Post 15396110)
Coming up with simple heuristics that would work for just about anyone wanting to maintain their dignity while going through airport security just doesn't seem possible.

This is not a flaw but a feature of the system. If they told us how to guarantee 'safe' passage through checkpoints it would tip off the terrorists!

exbayern Dec 7, 2010 2:38 am

Be male.

:rolleyes:

There are a number of threads here about the extra problems encountered by women, especially the growing list of clothing our TSOs here have said need to be removed, or which trigger a secondary inspection. Then add in sanitary napkins, breasts, etc and it makes it even more difficult for women than for men.


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