So you don't know anyone personally who is an involuntary medical opt-out or who has a medical anomaly who has undergone the new procedures? Have you yourself had the new frisk?

I get your point. I just wonder how informed your position is. If you are able-bodied, haven't presented an anomaly or been randomly selected for a frisk, then I don't know that you are really qualified to say whether or not someone who's been there is whining or not.

Just so I really understand where you're coming from: do you think the man with the ostomy bag that was handled so roughly it ruptured was whining? Do you think the flight attendant who was taken to a private room and forced to remove her breast prosthesis was whining? Do you think the father who posted here that his daughter was taken to a separate room and asked what she had in her pants was whining?

Maybe you do. Personally, I don't think they are whiners or drama queens. JMHO.

Bolded by me:

brendog has stated that he/she is not affected by security, and everyone who has been is just whiny drama-queens.

When brendog starts getting groped, or starts missing flights = totally different story. IMO

Brendog: Nobody would be whining if any of this actually deterred "terrorists"

Maybe one day you'll 'get it'.

Airplanes are a form of mass transit. They depend upon those masses to stay in operation. If enough of us "whiners" decline to fly, those who call us "whiners" will have plenty of seats from which to choose--until the airline cuts back routes.

Rail all you like, call names, demean, belittle: the plain fact is that you NEED us "whiners" to "suck it up" so you can continue to enjoy the routes you like to fly so frequently.

Just what we need: more abuse.

Sorry, not on my nickel.

It would be good karma for her if you had a seventeen-year-old daughter, and you happened to watch leering TSOs usher her into a Nude-o-Scope while telling their buddies via headset that they had "another cutie" coming for their entertainment. And then she was pegged for secondary screening, and you watched a burly TSO cup her breasts, command her to disrobe down to her panties, and palpate her naked thighs and sex organs. And then, as she stood their blinking back tears of humiliation, you had to tell her with a straight face that she wasn't being violated. Most normal fathers in that situation would explode. You, I guess, would tell your little girl to suck it up and submit.

How you can review the flood of testimony from innocent travelers who've been abused by TSOs in this manner, then assert blithely that nobody's being violated, beggars the imagination.

There were a number of factors that served as my tipping point and I'll list them below.

By way of disclaimer and explanation, I worked for the airport authority of a midsized (8 million pax/yr) US international airport.

1. The incompetence/stupidity/malevolence/uncaring atittude of your standard TSO. I do not state this lightly. I know some people will state things like, "politicians suck" or "all cops are corrupt" in a state of anger without a full understanding of a given situation or without ever having taken the time to meet a politician or a cop. Most politicians are decent human beings trying to make the world a better place, as are most cops. In dealing with the majority of TSOs at my airport at one point or another I cannot say the same. Your average TSO is incompetent, hates their job, hates passengers and is perfectly willing to let that show at the slightest provocation. When I saw examples of the TSA and TSOs and supervisors in action I decided to scale back my flying to any destination more than a night's drive away.
2. The original implementation of the WBI test program (MMW at my airport). When the TSA introduced this I went to my boss and told him to cancel any travel that wasn't absolutely necessary for my job.
3. The stupidity surrounding the liquid debacle. While this didn't have an effect on my travel decisions, it really made me wonder what wonderful drug was being used by the TSA senior mgmt in DC. I remember an airport police officer being harassed by the TSA for carrying a drink past security. Apparently a loaded firearm is okay to take past security but a beverage is a serious security risk :rolleyes:
4. The full rollout and implementation of WBI. This occurred after I left the airport's employ, and this was really my true decision to leave air travel behind altogether. If I can't do it by car/boat/private aircraft, I don't do it. Period. And do you want to know the sick part about it? The one road trip I've taken in the month since I decided to give up air travel altogether was easily the best travel experience I've ever had. I saw a good part of the midwest, stopped at a couple of microbreweries/wineries on the way to my destination and altogether enjoyed the heck out of the experience. When was the last time, flying commercially, that you actually enjoyed the process of getting from Point A to Point B?

Now, as to what's my "screw it, one of us is leaving on a stretcher" tipping point? Honestly I don't see it happening as I have no reason to ever make a trip to a US airport again. But if I saw a hysterical child, a hysterical mother and a pair of blue gloves on a TSO I'm relatively certain I'd end up leaving the scene in handcuffs.

As to imw50's comment, I'd still be "whining" if it deterred terrorists. Why? Because at heart I'm a civil libertarian. I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees.

[citation needed]

While that is possible, there is also the possibility that the current administration is very concerned with the green movement and flying is not a green activity.

I am wondering what those that approve of the screening think of how it might affect sexual assault survivors/people with PTSD and so on. That kind of violation is only going to bring them back to these terrible moments in their lives. It's just not worth it, these procedures are making no one safer.

The goals of the terrorists was to remove rights and freedoms of the american populace.

I would say they have succeeded.

As far as taking other forms of transportation? DHS has already confirmed these scanners WILL be showing up at ALL mass transit stations in the country.

Judging by the fact that every single parking lot at the Buffalo Airport was open this evening, and the short term parking was nearly empty... added to the fact that I have lived in the area for over 25 years, and I have NEVER ever seen the inbound traffic (the 190 to the 90) so backed up ever in my life for no accidents. Dry roads, no accidents, bumper to bumper traffic for MILES... couple that with thanksgiving week end, and the desolate airport, Id say Nood was a MASSIVE success.

However more opting out needs to continue. Given the lack of action by our elected politicians, I think we as a nation are going to begin seeing actual physical violence at check points for the sole reason that people will finally realize that they are on their own and no one is going to stand up for them...

Given the fact that millions are out of work still. unemployment is running out (thats why those numbers keep falling by the way) everyone but the American Tax payer is getting a 'bail out' and taxes are increasing. Being fined for NOT having health insurance... and a total lack of representation by our politicians?

Then, you take your family on vacation, and the Govt strip searches your wife, and molests your daughter in the name of 'security'

Anyone who thinks this ISNT going to get really really ugly isnt paying attention to reality.

Getting groped would be my tipping point. If I knew I wouldn't get in trouble for it I'd clock the guy doing it.

I think the tipping point has already been reached with alot of people, and they are just waiting for a catalyst. When that happens, things could in some cases spiral out of control very quickly...

I know alot of you feel this would never happen, but then again, we all never thought we would be strip searched and exposed to harmful doses of radiation in the name of 'security'

^ Well said! I think you summed it up nicely.

100+ flights for several straight years, never a single issue with security, even though I hand-carry electronic equipment that could be construed as suspicious. I run into far more issues with CBP explaining my international destinations than I do with the TSA.

I've been through countless nude-o-scans and a handful of patdowns, but none of them were ever anything but routine and professional, actually, cursory would be more apt.

Considering the hundreds of millions of passengers passing through US airports on an annual basis, if there really were an issue with the TSA, there would be far more more than a random handful of egregious violations. Again, I think the current security scheme is a woefully inadequate, steaming POS, but I still see no major issues with clearing it on a weekly basis. In a perfect world, the US would adopt a scaled down version of the Israeli security regime, but that would likely fall victim to criticisms of profiling and the like.

And as soon as they are implemented I will forgo those forms of transportation as well, and once again write my representatives, senators, and the providers of those forms of transportation as to why I will no longer use their services.

Though, I think one could make the effectiveness argument much more easily in court when dealing with trains/boats. It is TRIVIALLY easy to derail a train or cause massive casualties on a cruise vessel or ferry without even boarding compared to taking down an aircraft without boarding. You can derail a train with hand tools and can potentially sink a cruise vessel or ferry with a 14' boat turned IED. It's significantly harder to acquire the hardware necessary to down a plane from the ground.

While I won't jump to conclusions I'm cautiously optimistic on that front. I have a copy of the November 2009 airline activity report from my former employer and I will most assuredly get 2010 when it's available to check the numbers (daily pax enplanements at a single airport). If I get them reasonably soon I'll share the info as well. Hopefully it's a sign of good news.

I most assuredly agree more opting out needs to continue. Both opting out of WBI and opting out of flying altogether. I just don't think it's going to happen. While there are quite a few people who are categorically opposed to WBI and pat-downs I think a large percentage of those people will eventually adopt a "grin and bear it" attitude. IMO a large portion of this country has forgotten that no real social or liberty gain arrives without personal sacrifice. In the 60s and 70s large numbers of Americans were willing to take to the streets and face tear gas, water cannons and arrest over an issue. I think that spirit of civil (and often nonviolent) disobedience is simply gone today.

I really and truly hope you're right. My view, however, is there are a large number of people with the "protect me from the terrorists at all costs!" outlook and further a large number of people with the "I don't like it, but what do you expect me to do about it?" outlook. Essentially cowardice and apathy I think are going to rule the day. It's still worth the fight, and I hope against hope that I'm wrong.