CATSA vs. TSA?
#16
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Back in YYZ after 3 years of expat life in LHR
Programs: AC SE100K
Posts: 924
2) By brutal do you mean annoying etc or that they ran their hand up your leg and made contact with your genitals? I made a production of my recent opt out heading to the US at YUL. If they had the ability to offer a more enhanced version of the pat-down they would have.
My next two trips were business (so not cancelled) and ended up being "reasonable" (I always opt-out) ... what makes me nervous is my trip in Dec with my two teenagers - not so much the experience at YYZ, but the return flight coming out of the US.
This year I've had both extremes at YYZ US departures - full-on-grope once, professional three times. In those instances it was clear they were trying to just get through it themselves - full body groping isn't easily bought into in the Canadian workplace
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Last edited by lostinthewash; Nov 14, 2010 at 3:47 pm
#17
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ontario, Canada
Programs: Westjet Platinum, Fairmont Platinum RIP, Accor Gold, Marriott Lifetime Silver, HH Diamond
Posts: 1,296
The last few flights for me were domestic ones out of YYZ, I noted that there's a lonely L3 mmwave scanner at the far side center of T1 domestic security, but so far I have never seen it in use. I do appreciate being able to walk through the metal detector without having to take my shoes off, and once I forgot some change in my pocket, so they let me put the change in the tray and walk through again! The few CATSA people I've dealt with were polite and professional, didn't hurry me through the WTMD when I waited for my stuff to go into the X ray scanner, and waited for me on the other side to gather up all my belongings before doing what I consider to be a very thorough bag search (I carry a lot of gadgets with me), even helping me pack everything back into the bag when they were done. Didn't even look twice at my CPAP machine! (I fail to see why the fascination TSA has with CPAP machines and having to swab them EVERY time). Oh, and I can lock my checked luggage!!! Overall a more pleasant experience in Canada, though I am concerned when TSA tries to impose their methods on us and the aftermath that usually occurs as it did post "underwear bomber" early this year.
I don't do transborder to the US from YYZ, so I can't comment on what it's like there. Most of my USA travel is directly out of BUF, which has been pretty reasonable prior to the nudeoscopes being implemented.
I don't do transborder to the US from YYZ, so I can't comment on what it's like there. Most of my USA travel is directly out of BUF, which has been pretty reasonable prior to the nudeoscopes being implemented.
#18




Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS Titanium, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,583
Now Transport Canada reports that over 40 scanners will be installed in Canadian airports. Fortunately, all of these scanners will use millimeter-wave technology. This means travelers will be exposed to radio frequency waves that produce a three-dimensional image of a person’s body to detect hidden weapons or explosives.
Radio waves are not the same as the harmful X-ray ionizing radiation to be used in the United States.
Your belongings may be X-rayed in Canada but not your person - that's quite a difference for some of us right there.
#19




Join Date: Sep 2007
Programs: HH-S WS-G
Posts: 667
Remember In Canada you have the right to leave the screening process at any time if you decide that you don't want to fly.
CATSA is usually pretty good but I did give a death stare to an agent once when she complained that it was taking to long to remove my liquid medication from my carry-on
CATSA is usually pretty good but I did give a death stare to an agent once when she complained that it was taking to long to remove my liquid medication from my carry-on
#20
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Back in YYZ after 3 years of expat life in LHR
Programs: AC SE100K
Posts: 924
#21




Join Date: Jul 2004
Programs: AC.SE
Posts: 2,584
No one will yell at you, you can keep your shoes on, and you only need to show a boarding pass. If you alarm while going through the detector you may have to take your shoes off and you'll be wanded. I've never seen a grope.
There are only two detectors and belts, but there aren't usually many passengers in line and things move pretty quickly.
#23
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: YOW (mostly); PDX (some of the time)
Programs: AS (former)MVP, DL [NW-WP], AC Aeroplan, Starbucks Gold :)
Posts: 257
I have never been through YUL, so I'll take your word on that front. As to the domestic travel, NoS are in use at YOW (though only one as of a few weeks ago) and YYZ. I'll check YVR when I transfer between flights in a few weeks
#24




Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS Titanium, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,583
It's only when your destination is the U.S.A. that the screening becomes more complicated.The quiet at YVR, for example, is so, well, quiet. I know the carpeting helps but so does the attitude. ^
#25

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 6,964
I recently watched CATSA remove a large bottle of liquid from the bag of a passenger who was attempting to FWB
. They asked what it was, swabbed it, thanked the passenger and placed it back into his carry on and wished him a good flight.
Imagine that....
Well, not that difficult to imagine, actually, if one is used to flying from airports outside the US. Thankfully common sense does still exist in the world.
. They asked what it was, swabbed it, thanked the passenger and placed it back into his carry on and wished him a good flight.Imagine that....
Well, not that difficult to imagine, actually, if one is used to flying from airports outside the US. Thankfully common sense does still exist in the world.
#26

Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: YUL
Programs: AC SE
Posts: 2,103
They have NoS at yul domestic security. I thought they were only used as a secondary device. But, some have said that they were randomly selected to use the NoS at domestic.
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 10,034
I have flown inter-Canadian from airports smaller than Thunder Bay (never been to Thunder Bay though). The one thing I would advise is to follow the letter of the law, do not try to leave the liquid bag inside a carry-on. My boss is one of those "oh, they don't care about the liquid bags" people. He got the whole nine yards at an airport smaller than Thunder Bay, bags entirely unpacked for everyone to see, etc. The people treated him like they found bin laden himself.
The one thing the TSA does have over CATSA is that they construct the checkpoints better. The key is to have lots of rollers leading up to the mouth of the x-ray. Many Canadian airports, domestic or to the US, do not have lengthy ones, so the line slows to a crawl.
CATSA does HORRIBLE staffing at checkpoints. For example, in the US, the TSAer at the magnetometer will shuffle you off to another TSA if you alarm. With CATSA, that same person gives you the patdown and waving of the hand-held device. All the time, nobody can go through because the person is not watching the metal detector. I have been in lines with two or three people ahead of me and it has taken five to 10 minutes to go through from that point.
Be prepared for an inordinate amount of BP inspections (none with ID). For example, in Toronto T1, you get a total of five inspections BEFORE clearing the checkpoint (1. Entering Customs Hall, 2. US CBP stamping your BP, 3. CATSA person in the middle of the line with one of those electronic guns scanning your pass, 4. The person at the randomizer (the green arrow thing), 5. The person at the mouth of the x-ray). Then you have to show your Passport and BP again at the departure gate as you board.
When you fly domestic, it will be two checks. Someone at the end of the roped lines and the x-ray bin feeder.
I've been told that CATSA Toronto has a very high turnover rate of people, few are pleasant. Most have the facial expression and body language that they would rather have a root canal.
Good luck.
The one thing the TSA does have over CATSA is that they construct the checkpoints better. The key is to have lots of rollers leading up to the mouth of the x-ray. Many Canadian airports, domestic or to the US, do not have lengthy ones, so the line slows to a crawl.
CATSA does HORRIBLE staffing at checkpoints. For example, in the US, the TSAer at the magnetometer will shuffle you off to another TSA if you alarm. With CATSA, that same person gives you the patdown and waving of the hand-held device. All the time, nobody can go through because the person is not watching the metal detector. I have been in lines with two or three people ahead of me and it has taken five to 10 minutes to go through from that point.
Be prepared for an inordinate amount of BP inspections (none with ID). For example, in Toronto T1, you get a total of five inspections BEFORE clearing the checkpoint (1. Entering Customs Hall, 2. US CBP stamping your BP, 3. CATSA person in the middle of the line with one of those electronic guns scanning your pass, 4. The person at the randomizer (the green arrow thing), 5. The person at the mouth of the x-ray). Then you have to show your Passport and BP again at the departure gate as you board.
When you fly domestic, it will be two checks. Someone at the end of the roped lines and the x-ray bin feeder.
I've been told that CATSA Toronto has a very high turnover rate of people, few are pleasant. Most have the facial expression and body language that they would rather have a root canal.
Good luck.
#28
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 100
Contrary to most of the comments in this thread, my experiences with CATSA have been far worse than those with the TSA. I have been humiliated by CATSA time and time again with so-called "random" pat-downs.
Last edited by Jetbee; Nov 14, 2010 at 11:40 pm
#29
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,849
I may as well add my comments about CATSA:
1. I always alarm through the WTMD in Canada. Always. I swear I could walk through that thing naked and it would go off. Nowhere else has that been a problem. In fact, a while back we travelled YYZ-HKG-SYD (stopover in HKG). I tested my theory by wearing the same shoes, same pants, and same watch (no additional metal) through all three checkpoints. I alarmed in YYZ, but not in HKG or SYD. Too damn sensitive!
2. Not that this is CATSA-specific, but they don't know what the hell they are doing. Two examples:
(a) When I alarm the WTMD, they like to wand or pat-down my bare skin (arms, even my feet once). What do people hide under their skin anyhow?
(b) When travelling with my two-year-old daughter, I was directed to allow her through the WTMD by herself. I followed directly behind her, but was stopped because I caused an alarm (again). The guy wouldn't let me take another step, despite the fact that my two-year-old daughter was now running off into the post-security area by herself. Had her grandparents not been on the other side (though, at least 25 metres away, and unbeknownst to the CATSA fool), I would have caused more of a stink.
3. Staffing levels often leave something to be desired. They can be damn slow at times.
I'd like to see the whole organisation disbanded and security turned over to the airlines and airport authorities. I don't have to be screened for security purposes by a federal agency when I board a ferry, train, or bus. Why should an aeroplane be any different?
1. I always alarm through the WTMD in Canada. Always. I swear I could walk through that thing naked and it would go off. Nowhere else has that been a problem. In fact, a while back we travelled YYZ-HKG-SYD (stopover in HKG). I tested my theory by wearing the same shoes, same pants, and same watch (no additional metal) through all three checkpoints. I alarmed in YYZ, but not in HKG or SYD. Too damn sensitive!
2. Not that this is CATSA-specific, but they don't know what the hell they are doing. Two examples:
(a) When I alarm the WTMD, they like to wand or pat-down my bare skin (arms, even my feet once). What do people hide under their skin anyhow?
(b) When travelling with my two-year-old daughter, I was directed to allow her through the WTMD by herself. I followed directly behind her, but was stopped because I caused an alarm (again). The guy wouldn't let me take another step, despite the fact that my two-year-old daughter was now running off into the post-security area by herself. Had her grandparents not been on the other side (though, at least 25 metres away, and unbeknownst to the CATSA fool), I would have caused more of a stink.
3. Staffing levels often leave something to be desired. They can be damn slow at times.
I'd like to see the whole organisation disbanded and security turned over to the airlines and airport authorities. I don't have to be screened for security purposes by a federal agency when I board a ferry, train, or bus. Why should an aeroplane be any different?

