DevilDog438

Pyridine - Welcome to FT!

I completely understand the privacy aspect of not wanting to share the travel path. That being said, there are a couple of threads on here concerning the Whole Body Imaging systems (I refuse to use the AIT term, as it is an obfuscation of what is really happening, used by TSA to misdirect the general public).

Since I have not seen anyone post it, there is a "sticky" at the top of this forum that is endeavoring to maintain a complete listing of known WBI locations. You can look at that list for the airport codes you will be going through and see if the WBI is used at each airport, and if it is used in the specific terminal you will be traveling through. For example, they are used at BWI, but only in the A/B (Southwest) and D (AirTran/Cape Air/Continental/United/US Airways) checkpoints (if you are not flying on one of those airlines out of BWI, the WBI is not used).

The two resources you should review here:
Complete List of Airports with BackScatter / MMV Nude-O-Scopes
Airport Code Lookup Tool

manneca

I opted out once, and got waved through the metal detector once.

In my pat down, I was taken into a room with two female TSOs. You can take your mother in with you. Insist that she accompany you. I thought the pat down was professionally done. I was wearing jeans and a T shirt. The woman ran her hand up the inside of my legs. She said that she would run the hand up until she met resistance, but she stopped short of my crotch. She used the back of her hand underneath my breasts. She did not touch any part of my breasts except for running her hand underneath them.

Your experience may be different. Be cool. Be calm.

On the other hand, I have often said, that you lose all sense of modesty once you have a baby.

This invasive, intrusive procedure is getting more and more negative publicity in mainstream media. I hope it will be changed.

neko

I agree.

If your feelings are genuinely fear of sexual harassment, rather than reflecting stress over dealing with family issues during the sometimes quite horrible togetherness of the holidays, then you are old enough take responsibility for your own safety. I urge you to think as hard and as clearly as you can about this -- family is an extremely important obligation -- and only the most serious concerns should take precedence.

Would you feel the same about a trip with friends somewhere that you've always wanted to go? If you think that would be worth the risk of harassment, then this trip is too.

Discuss your concerns with your parents as calmly as you can. If you decide to travel, plan with them well in advance how you and they will handle the security checkpoint. There is good information in about various airports in the sticky thread.

I also suggest that you start thinking and discussing with your parents how this will affect your college plans, if you are thinking in that direction.

lostinthewash

If you are flying out of Canadian international airports, you may not be able to choose your line ... they use a "randomizer" to select people to randomly send through the NoS/enhanced pat down. The lucky left arrow.

I am booked to travel with my two teenagers into the US in a couple of weeks (it was booked a year and a half ago before all this nonsense, and I haven't had the courage to cancel their vacation).

We have started talking about the process - what to expect, Opting out, the pat down. I have also done a "dry-run" with them on the pat down so they first experience someone's hands running all over them while it is a trusted parent. The more you can know what to expect if it happens, the better.

Make sure you wear conservative clothes - you don't want to be told to take your jacket off if you only have something flimsy underneath.

Make sure you have nothing that would set off a metal detector.

Pack light carry-on only.

If you can choose your line, or if you aren't selected, you'll find security to be pretty straight-forward and generally OK.

BearX220

I can honestly say this is some of the worst, most off-target advice I've ever heard in my life. You have a conscious, admirably aware young woman show up here to -- quite correctly -- voice her concerns about invasive body scans or physical searches that many believe constitute sexual assault on a minor, and your advice is to focus on Starbucks or your MP3 player. For goodness' sakes.

To the OP: I want to validate your concerns. You are right to worry about what's being done to your body and by whom. I disagree with those who are essentially telling you to learn how to submit. If you were worried about going to a party crowded with out-of-control young men, I doubt many people would be telling you to learn how to submit.

If you are at a checkpoint where the full-body scanner is the only kind available, your choices are: evil... or really evil. I think the scanner is the really evil one. I urge you to opt out of the scanner because of the radiation factor, because you will be viewed virtually nude by an unseen TSO who may be male or female, because TSOs have show marked, prurient interest in getting young, attractive women into the scanner, and because the devices have the ability to save and transmit your image.

That does not mean you should "relax and enjoy" the physical pat-down that is your only alternative. Be minimally cooperative. Get your mom or dad to videotape the event with a camera phone. Narrate the procedure loudly. Call out your officer if she uses the front of her hand. I like this advice:

Then, when you're done, get back at them. Get the names of the officers involved if you can. File a complaint. Write to your congressman. Contact your media. Get political. Get your parents involved. Get them beyond the shrugging stage. "If it keeps us safer" is not a rationale for this. This is about your privacy and liberty. We are in a fight here and you are about to become a soldier.

Thank you for thinking about this issue.

tanja

Really about that you "loose the modesty once you have a baby"?!

I have had 6 kids and I am not shy at all.

But I choose who is going to touch me and/or see me naked or my naked image.
And I will NEVER loose my modesty to uninveted starngers like TSO.

Jaimito Cartero

So, Pyridine, only pretty girls should not want to be molested by the TSA? And not be viewed on the NOS by a caveman/cavewoman?

Young, old, pretty, or ugly we should all be afforded respect when we go through the checkpoints. A super grope or NOS is not my idea of respect.

I've had patdowns many times, and have not found them overly obtrusive. If they're going to squeeze my balls, they'd better buy me dinner or something, first.

jcwoman

I agree. The advice here swings from "think about something else" to "allow yourself to be molested so that you can draw attention to it". I'm long out of teenagehood, but I remember it clearly enough to know that the LAST thing a teenage girl wants when she's recieving unwanted attention is to draw public attention to it. Nor is tolerating it in private acceptable. What are we teaching our kids these days?!?

PTravel

I think this is a little unfair to Pyridine. Her concern, which I think is absolutely valid, is that, at some stations, TSOs seem to be focusing their "random" selections on pretty girls, hence she is more likely to be selected.

As for whether or not you find pat-downs intrusive ("obtrusive"?), sorry, that's a matter of personal taste. There is a constitutional standard that limits the scope of an administrative search and I'll bet everyone a doughnut that TSA's latest atrocities, particularly with respect to the pat-down, exceed it.

BearX220

This is true, and if you read my post I am not advocating submission with this young lady. I am advocating politicization.

If she is faced with an all-WBI security gantlet her options are threefold:

1) Go through scanner, display nude body
2) Opt out of scanner, endure assaultive touching
3) Turn around, forget trip, go home

All the choices are awful, and #3 isn't really possible if she's on the far end of her trip, coming home. So I say #2 is the lesser of two very bad evils, but that does not mean I am "teaching our kids" to submit. I want the OP to become an advocate for changing this madness, which to some extend does mean "drawing public attention." Such is the nature of civil disobedience. So many of her elders have melted into meek sheep when confronted with TSA. As often happens, younger people must hold older people to account. The Rosa Parks of this drama will not be a lumpy middle-aged white guy with a laptop, like me. It will be a young person with a fine sense of outrage and higher expectations for America.

Pyridine

Thank you all very much for your advice!

Ultimately, I will hope that the situation does not come to anything more than the metal detector. If it does, and I feel that it has gone too far, I will not hesitate to bring attention to it. I do not like the idea of not having control over who gets to view or touch me. Nor should I ever be forced to get used to it.

My intent was not to mean that anyone else should not also have equal rights and respect, regardless of what they look like. As PTravel said, I only gave that information because in the stories I have seen, it seems that pretty young women have become targets of these random searches. I apologize that it came off as otherwise to you.
Whether there is merit to this, I will find out for myself when the time comes.

For all who have taken my first post to mean that I'm relunctant to go on vacation with my family because I do not want to spend time with them, that is certainly not the case. I had been looking forward to this vacation until a friend told me that he had seen something about the new scanners on the news, and I decided to take a look.

BearX220

You're absolutely right. Stick to your beliefs. Don't let anyone tell you this situation is "not that bad," because it is that bad, especially for women. Please stay active on this board and let us know what you're thinking, and how your flying experience goes.

tusphotog

For being 17, you sound incredibly smart. I wish more people, young and old, shared your view. Who says kids these days are "dumb?"

Enjoy your trip.

MikeMpls

It's different in a hospital setting where you're dealing with real professionals. I spent almost five weeks in hospitals (ICU, normal ward, nursing facility) last winter. Sometimes times there were male/female teams to attend to things, somethings just female, rarely just male, a couple times females were present just to evaluate how well I could take care of myself. Except perhaps for one or two of the nursing assistants, they were all professionals in positions that require a minimum of a year of training, often more. And even the nursing assistants were very respectful.

I wouldn't want any of TSA's loud, vulgar Neanderthals dealing with me in those situations. The difference in training & demeanor is like night and day.

Jaimito Cartero

I commend you for being proactive about this issue. Most people only post on FT after they've had a traumatic experience, and we never hear from them again.

I think you do really need to communicate to your parents that if you are told that you have to go through the nude-o-scope, or being groped that you won't go on vacation with them. Unfortunately, you probably won't know this for sure, until you get to the airport.

Again, I don't think that anyone should have to go through this experience. All the shoes off, liquids out, laptops out have driven me crazy, but I try to have a sense of humor about it. These new things are just going too far.

Good luck!