exbayern

There was a thread about barking and stress earlier this summer and I paid special attention to the lack thereof in Europe whilst the topic was being debated here.

At LHR there was a woman behind me obviously American-trained; she stripped down to her tshirt and trousers, removing items that we are not required to remove. She was rather frantic in her movements, and took a large number of bins to arrange everything just so. Most of her actions were not required. Her stress was visible.

Even more sad was the child of about 10 years old behind me another time at LHR who was trying to tell his mother and younger brother what they should be doing. When his mother reassured him that they didn't need to remove their shoes or other items, he became rather frantic, and by the time they were next at the WTMD he was really upset that they were not going to make it past security because they had failed to do the TSA approved method of preparation.

The sad thing is that TSA has programmed a lot of travellers to accept this as the norm, and has blinded them to the fact that it does nothing to increase security. There are many posters online who do feel that TSA and the USA is number one, and that other countries have 'lax' airport security because they choose not to implement the same procedures or treat their travellers in this fashion.

Wally Bird

I think the reason they "all" want to come here has more to do with economic and perhaps political considerations than the welcoming attitude of ICE and TSA.

Don't let me stop you from trotting out the platitudes though.

ylwae

In all the foreign countries I travel to, no one at security:

1) has yelled
2) has made up rules as they go along
3) has wanted to see identification
4) has made anyone go through a virtual strip search
5) has been truly unpleasant or acted irrationally

The only time the above is not true is when I'm flying from a foreign country to the US. In Japan, for example, you'll get a patdown before boarding which includes checking inside the waistband of your trousers. So far, no one has introduced genital fondling or other activities the TSA takes pleasure in.

The likelihood of an actual terrorist attack is exceedingly low (perpetual orange threat level notwithstanding). In that context, the TSA's adoption of unproven measures executed in an oppressive manner by often questionable individuals makes me feel less than reassured.

Firebug4

I never said America was. In fact a significant portion of the job is stopping heroin and cocaine from traveling through the US from Central and South America to Europe but don't let that get in the way of the TSA and Law Enforcement in general bashing that occurs here.

FB

I am not the one that started with the platitudes about "third world countries" and where the US fits in the pecking order so to speak. I am perfectly aware of why people wish to illegally immigrate to United States probably much more so than most on this forum. Which is exactly the point, the countries that flyer mentioned in his post can afford to conduct their inspections of people entering their country differently than the US especially if that person is a US Citizen for obvious reasons the most being those same economic and political considerations.

People looking to illegally immigrate to the United States could careless about the welcoming attitude of CBP (the agency that does the admissions in the Ports of Entries and the patrols of the area between the Ports NOT ICE) I am not sure why you believe that the country should be welcoming illegal immigration. I am not even sure how TSA figures into a welcoming attuide for illegal immigration as they are not even involved in it.

FB

Wally Bird

That's not the platitude to which I was referring.

Rather, the notion that everyone in the so-called third world is pounding on the doors of the US to be let in. Most are quite happy to stay where they are, others would choose any one of a dozen different countries ahead of the US.

Your contention is archaic and obsolete.

Davidwnc

I would have thought that they couldN'T care less...but what do I know.

Global_Hi_Flyer

Which is exactly the intent. Train the citizens to be submissive to government bureaucrats & foist the notion that something cannot be correct unless the government tells you it is. There is only one way: the bureaucratic way.

I have no issue with stopping the flow of illegal drugs. What I object to is 1) the methodology of doing so, and 2) the rude, barking, "we are the boss and you are the subject" attitude displayed by any number of those practicing the profession. I doubt you'd see as much bashing here were certain agencies to live up to the principles that underlie the US Constitution - including presumption of innocence, individual rights, and personal freedoms. And many of the issues stem from those setting policy, though some of the field employees certainly stretch the bounds... it is the bad experiences that stand out in people's minds.

I worked in Federal enforcement at one time in my life. I can't describe how much different things looked after I left and started working on the other side of the fence - the things I recall that my former colleagues used to say and do are appalling when viewed from a different perspective. The old saying "to a dog the world looks like a fire hydrant" is very, very true.

PhoenixRev

Are you seriously suggesting the thoroughness of the examination of people entering this country is dependent upon the surliness (or lack thereof) of the agent performing that examination?

I would love to see the scientific studies that bear that out.

Fredd

Indeed. Singapore, for example, manages to make it quite clear on its landing card without yelling about it.

The iron fist in the velvet glove, or, as TR said, walk softly and carry a big stick.

Firebug4

Nope, I said nothing about surliness. My comment was to the manner in which other countries conduct their inspections. The amount of questions asked, what specifics they are looking for, what triggers a search those type of things. It many times is very different depending upon what country you are entering, what your citizenship is, and what they are looking for. Each country has their own unique problems they give priority to. You brought up surliness which is not necessary when doing an inspection.

My second paragraph which you may be referring to with your comment is merely to point out that someone illegally immigrating (hint hint sneaking in to the country in this case through a port of entry is more than likely lying to do it) doesn't care what the officers attitude is he just wants to get by as quickly as possible.

FB

PhoenixRev

The complaint in many of these posts, however, is the surliness of CBP and TSA agents who bark orders, seem fitfully hostile to people, etc. In all of my international travels, I have never returned to the US to find a cordial or polite CBP officer. I get the sneers and the looks of contempt or just dead silence. With very few exceptions, I get similar treatment by TSOs at the airport.

If I want the barking orders, the hostility, the surliness, the sneers and the looks of contempt, I can search out my ex.

Davidwnc

So quantity beats out quality?

Firebug4

That depends entirely on the technique being used and the base lines that have been obtained.

FB

n4zhg

When did TSA hire her?

Nola Rice

Wow, is this person for real?

Travel quite often in China and the security is great. Nice, efficient, and shoes on. I have never had a bag opened without my permission and participation. Of course I do not say no, but it is a show of respect and you cannot say something is missing due to the search.

I must also say that I have had some great CBP on returning to the US with no problems. But I put them in a different category than TSA.

I experience the Barker Bob at every US checkpoint and they are usually found screaming at people that barely speak English. It is easier to stand in one spot and scream than actually do your job. My favorite is the stool screamer found at Newark. That woman looked like she had not moved in years.

These are probably the same people who read the article about talking louder on your mobile phone making the phone work better.