How so? I have my ideas but would like clarification on yours.

So between the beginning of 2002 and the end of 2007 enplanement is up, and yet that means more people are choosing not to fly you somehow reason. Strange. I think you drank from my TSA cool-aid...

Why would it be impossible for enplanement to be up and for more people choosing not fly?

The decline could also be due to the airlines. The price of a ticket plus extra baggage and a rental car can make driving reasonable distances much more palatable. Fuel prices have stablized somewhat, you don't have to curtail your packing and the worries of lost/stolen baggage are eliminated. How about the lines for check in and security at peak travel times? I'd rather face the highways for Thanksgiving than fly with a bunch of kettles trying to jam turkeys in the overhead (yep, seen this a few times :rolleyes:)

The TSA may be a factor, but I can't see it being the biggest.

Hmmm, that's a tough one, all right. But since both seem to end up resulting in a boot on our necks, does it really matter?

Wirelessly posted (Motorola DynaTAC: BlackBerry9630/5.0.0.624 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/104)

Actally, I had posted a quote from someone expressing their displeasure that the TSA had started harassing people at a bus station.

Because it's filled with suppositions and assumptions. Even in the article, the author interviews someone he feels is relevant to the interest of the article saying "nobody knows [if that's true, the scenario of TSA being directly related]."

I don't dispute what the author's sentiment about security theater and what he pointed out about the WBI machines.

There are so many "what ifs" out there as well. Absolutely, there ARE people who likely said "screw the airplane travel mode" because of the security angle, but to assume or flat-out lay the blame on just the TSA is wrong.

There is an abundance of other very plausible reasons as well. What is not presented in the article are things like airline customer service and on-time records in 2005 were pretty miserable. Unless you're an elite with an airline (and even that's not a gimme), customer service is faceless with all the pushing to go online and/or to a kiosk, and the humans you see are overworked and overburdened. Also in 2005 (and before) airlines were scrambling (and still are) to cut costs wherever they could. More flights also went to regional carriers, or were simply cut. I don't know about you, but if I could drive for a few more hours over taking a regional carrier, I would do that in a heartbeat. And if I were traveling regularly within the northeast corridor, I would likely become an elite level member with Amtrak.

Further in answering your question, I'm getting tired of some of the content in the TS/S forum. While there are some valid points and posts that are made, I feel the sense of frustration among some contributors have reduced some intelligent people to acquiring a third-grade level vernacular. I'm not going to cite specific examples, because some of it comes from people I respect, and it saddens me to see it from those folks.

I've always felt the purpose of this place as being a great place to vent out about the ridiculous "security" procedures, and possibly be used as an avenue for another voice to TSA headquarters. And there are some people who vent out in a diplomatic way, but the name calling of DHS/TSA folks might sound funny or be a subconscious way to "getting back' at the powers that be, but it also eliminates any hopes and/or credibility the TSA might take in reading this forum to consider our concerns.

Maybe my feelings are misguided I don't know. Again, while I agree with the frustration expressed by the author and many in this thread already, I just think the tone to which some feel about the TSA can be discussed in a more mature manner.

I'll contribute my own flight aversion behavior to the mix. The majority of my flight activity involves international departures from LAX. I live in SAN. Prior to TSA I ALWAYS flew SAN-LAX to make a connection. Post TSA I have forever stopped making that connecting flight because I can drive it in 90 minutes and no way can I do it in 90 minutes by air plus I get belittled, harassed and generally treated like crap if I try to do it by air. This has resulted in quite literally hundreds of additional car trips up and down the 5/405. I can generally be found cruising about 90 mph if traffic is not an issue. I'm quite sure this has indeed increased my own life risk many times over the status quo pre-TSA. The study rings true.

What a heck of a choice: being treated like crap by the TSA in San Diego or treated like crap by the TSA at LAX...

To be fair -- if one reads the study, the methodology is pretty good for hypothesizing about the number of additional traffic deaths attributable to non-flying. It uses fatalities among commercial drivers (which remain relatively static) as a control against facalities among non-commercial drivers (which initially increased drastically, then steadily decreased). It also controls well for economic (gas prices, ticket prices, etc.) conditions.

It's clear that the number of additional traffic deaths attributable to non-flying decreased (substantially) during each year of the time frame studied.

Finally, the study does not attribute non-flying to airport security. The study attributes non-flying to something they call the "9/11 effect", which is some combination of an (irrational) fear of being victim of another attack AND the actions of airport security.


That said, I didn't initially change my flying patterns after 9/11, and I've personally stopped flying completely since about 2007, solely as a result of the security process.


~~ Irish

+1 ^^

We don't often agree but this sums up my own thoughts on this article pretty accurately.

:confused:

You still have to go through a TSA checkpoint in LAX. If you were connecting SAN-LAX-XXX you still would only go through one TSA checkpoint, but in a smaller, more convenient airport. Your logic doesn't make sense to me here...

My Dad who is a coroporate executive his new personal policy because of the TSA goons is anything under 350-400 miles he drives now.

Depends if he needs to change terminals though.

Odds of being a victim in a terrorist attack are probable somewhere around 1 in 1 billion.

Odds of being a victim of TSA (theft, harassment, being groped, pointless delay) are somewhere around 1 in every 4 or 5 encounters.

Yes, that's the result of the TSA and not the sight of terrorists flying two planes into buildings and trying to do the same with a third. :rolleyes:

Do you sit around all day and try to think of novel and unique ways to complain about the TSA or something?